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Thread: 10 man DS setup question

  1. #1
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    10 man DS setup question

    Has anyone found a viable method for killing the adds without having a strong kiter in group? We are a melee heavy raid:

    Fury Warrior
    2x Prot Warrior
    Ret
    Unholy DK
    Shadow Priest
    Ele Sham
    Holy Priest
    Disc Priest
    Resto Druid

    The obvious problem we have is only 2 ranged. We tried putting the DK on the adds (chaining them and taunting back when they got close to the ranged) as well as changing the disc priest to shadow. The problem we had was when the first mark would go up at ~20% we would start losing people.

    I was unaware of the disarm mechanic, so we will definitely try that after the first mark goes out.

    What I am very curious about, is if we have the tank who is currently blood marked pick up one of the adds, lock it down with stuns, and let the melee kill it, do you think this would be a viable strategy?

    So, in interest of making this threat not just about my group, how would you handle the adds if you don't have a strong "kiter" or are very melee heavy? I'm thinking a disarm rotation and a fast burn might honestly be better.

  2. #2
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    We had a very similar group make up to yours and our druid tank would constantly gain initial aggro on the adds.

    We had a DK taunt ones in the middle and the resto druid (me) entangling roots them as much as possible. In hindsight there really isnt that much damage for three healers to handle, so I might suggest the druid going boomkin if possible.

    Another thing we tried which had mixed success was have our holy pally put on righteous fury to have them initially aggro on to him with me using entangling roots.

  3. #3
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    In our first 10-man this week we had:
    Druid + Pally tanks.
    Disc Priest, Holy Pally, Resto Shaman healers.
    Fury Warrior, Rogue, Enhance Shaman melee DPS
    Shadow Priest, Arcane Mage caster DPS.

    We simply had the Mage and S.Priest nuke one add while the Disc Priest would get aggro on the other one and Fade when it got close to him sending it off somewhere else while the ranged DPS nuked it.

    The most annoying thing about the fight was the Pally loved getting initial aggro on the Beasts because Hammer of I Win does full damage to both the Beasts (I'd assume Glyph of Maul would make a Druid a pain with the Beasts as well, which is probably what happened to Zerek's group. I don't use that glyph myself.)
    "Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."

  4. #4
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    Tried this tonight, got him to 10% with 2 prot warriors. Myself one of them. It seems as though the debuff he gives the tank is managable and it would be better for me to go dps instead. Since honestly the OT doesnt really do much. How I wish I had a dps set. If worse comes to worse Ill bring in a hunter in my stead. The disarm appears to be hot fixed.

  5. #5
    If you have two protection warriors you can do one of two things, either have one go DPS or do a taunt rotation to reduce the healing. If you do not have another form of Mortal Strike, then DPS will outweigh the healing you would prevent with a second tank.

    Root is your friend, use it on one and DPS the other add down. Focus firing these adds one at a time is very useful.

    Everything you can do to reduce the amount of Blood Points he receives is a good thing. Also, a death of a raid member can heal him, so once you start losing people, it just tumbles away from you.
    Loyalty above all, except Honor.

  6. #6
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    The death only heals him if the victim had mark of the fallen crusader. Which Cannot be taken off in any way, and happens when DS gets 100 bb's. And every 100 there after. The person with the mark takes extra phsyical dmg, so preists be sure to sheild your raid members.

    Its vital you dont let the fiends melee anybody.

  7. #7
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    There also appears to be a soft enrage at 25%, so have tanks switch off as normal, but be ready to use cooldowns, trinkets, etc etc.

    Pop an amour potion at 26% as well.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the replies, guys. I am afraid using 1 tank will let him grow BP even faster (doesn't his mark generate BP?).

    Aside from that, the idea to kite one with the disc priest is excellent. Thank you! We will definitely try that.

    I hope the part about disarm being patched is wrong, we'll see.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmedog View Post
    I hope the part about disarm being patched is wrong, we'll see.
    Cannot disarm him anymore.
    "Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."

  10. #10
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    One thing that definitely helped last night is that I would taunt one of the adds onto myself when it got about 20 yards away, that way it couldn't get to me before it was nuked down.

    A ret paladin was also doing this and it worked wonders for our dps able to kite it back about 20 yards, then it would follow us for the remaining 3 seconds of it's life.

    He is not able to be disarmed, as well he shouldn't be. He does not hit hard enough at any stretch to warrant the ability to disarm him.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmedog View Post
    Thanks for the replies, guys. I am afraid using 1 tank will let him grow BP even faster (doesn't his mark generate BP?).
    If you use only one tank, then Saurfang will constantly heal himself as soon as Rune of Blood is applied to the tank he's hitting. Looking at my combat log, that's probably worse than the DPS loss from having a second tank (every hit he lands on a tank with the debuff will heal him for 11k-13k as far as I can tell).

  12. #12
    The adds are also affected by knockbacks (ie: Thunderstorm, Typhoon, Blast Wave), so those can be handy as well.
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  13. #13
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    Yeah, if youre the tank not taking the big its ATM, just help out if the dps needs it and play Yo Yo with the adds.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmedog View Post
    (doesn't his mark generate BP?).
    The marked people will generate BP every time the tank takes damage. That is because the marked people take damage with the tank. If the tank has the debuff, then DBS will get marks for hitting the tank, and for the Marked person taking damage from the tank taking damage.

    Overall = soft enrage basically.

  15. #15
    honestly, one thing you can do is pretty simple, if you continually are dieing to the marks and getting overrun at the end just let someone die early, like basically what we did in 25 man was let the 1st, 2 people die to the mark as soon as they got it, by the time the 2nd person got it he was at 30% ish, healed to 35% then we just burnt him down from 35-0 with only 2 more marks going out, made the fight quite easy mode.

  16. #16
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    The easiest way in my oppinion would be to have your resto druid go boomkin.The elem sham can help placing earhbind totem down before adds are beeing spawned,have your druid cast starfall+hurricane on boss before adds are spawned aswell ,and use typhoon when adds are close to ranged.Also as others have mentioned druid can also use roots if neccesary.Good luck

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    The adds are also affected by knockbacks (ie: Thunderstorm, Typhoon, Blast Wave), so those can be handy as well.
    They can also be stunned, and since you're running 2 prot warriors the one not tanking can do some stunning on the initial spawn. And the ret pally can also help out in that regard every other spawn I guess.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil View Post
    The easiest way in my oppinion would be to have your resto druid go boomkin.The elem sham can help placing earhbind totem down before adds are beeing spawned,have your druid cast starfall+hurricane on boss before adds are spawned aswell ,and use typhoon when adds are close to ranged.Also as others have mentioned druid can also use roots if neccesary.Good luck
    I'd agree with that (or really, switch out any other healer for DPS).

    This fight is ideal for a two healer setup and the boost you get from having another DPS matters a lot for beating the soft enrage from the marks. The additional ranged DPS also helps a lot in getting the Blood Beasts off the tanks and melee DPS quickly.

  19. #19
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    Last night we had a similar quandry in our 2nd run which was mostly alts and although we only had one prot warrior, the following made it possible.

    - for starters, you need to 2 healer it, have one of your healers with a ranged DPS offspec switch to that

    - assign a tank to each add (left or right) and likewise one ranged to focus.

    - tanks open with shockwave, ranged then has 4 seconds to unload enough burst to get the aggro (i was on my spriest and found mind blast + SW was enough to grab them

    - the assigned dpsers hammer the targets down, the one spare ranged assists on one of the beasts. if you have two shadowpriest have them split so you have a mindflay on both.

    - when the beasts get close to their dpser the tank taunts back, the dps continue to burn the targets down.

    - By this point the beast with 2 ranged on it will be pretty much dead. when it dies they assist on the other beast, with the aggro target kiting backwards if it takes a while to die.

    - only use heroism when he does he enrages at ~25%, this is the point it starts to get crazy with both a mark up and his extra damage.

    This was all done with a group that had 0 aoe slows, we had to rely on mindflay alone (which mean our dps on beasts was reduced somewhat. We also had a prot pala which meant bad timing with taunts if runed blood went up at the same time a beast was being kited.
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  20. #20
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    We gave him another shot last night (same setup), and blew him up on the first attempt.

    The big difference was we let the first mark die, the 5% heal was nothing compared to his BP not going up.

    After that it was a straight burn. At 15% he threw out another mark and we said screw the beasts. We went full DPS on the boss and had a tank pick up the beasts.

    I was VERY suprised to watch his BP hardly moving. He was getting far more from the mark than from the beasts.




    So, I would say if you are having problems kiting, just tanking the beasts and assigning dps to each side would probably be a viable method in 10man (you still have to kill them or new ones will spawn in and you'll eventually get overrun).


    edit: We had the disc priest go shadow, since we were letting marks die anyway. Healing wasn't even close to an issue.

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