Icecrown Deathbringer Saurfang

[Mr.Winkle]

Killed this guy on 10man last night after refining our strat a little. Pretty confident you could solo heal this as a holy pally which would allow for 7 dps. Although we went with druid/holy pally with the druid helping with roots and the like.

I don't think the 1 tank strat is particularly useful since you just boost Saurfang's BP by a ton plus there's no way the self healing he recieves can be outdps'd by the addition of 1 more dps.

[Mr.Winkle]

we seem to be having problems in our 25man.

we've gotten 6 marks in 5:40 of fighting. we have 10 melee which i think might be part of the problem.

heres the log for 4 of our attempts
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


is there anything we can do about the nova? is it instant or can we see the target and run away in time?

I'm not sure whether it's instant or not but looking at the logs i would guess that 1 of your ranged dps was within 12 yards of the warriors that were affected by bloodnova.

Looking at try 4 (since i'm guessing everyone understood the fight a bit better) bloodnova only generates 25 BP, which seems reasonable enough.

Your paladin tank took 96 hits with rune of blood active, thats 96 BP to saurfang and 2.4m HP healed, when, with appropriate tank switching that number should be closer to 0. Don't use the single tank strat.

You also chose to keep the marked victims alive, that generated an additional 219 BP on your last attempt. When letting them die would have negated that completely.

Total BP generated:
BloodNova: 25
Rune of Blood: 96
Mark of Champion: 219
Boiling blood: 202 (this ones unavoidable)
Blood beasts: 45 (meh...in an ideal world this'd be 0 but 45's not going to kill you)

Thats a total of: 587 BP, so you almost hit a 6th mark

If you tank swap and let each of the Mark'd die this will reduce to 272 BP, only enough for 2 marks at the time you died. The only downside to letting the marks die is the 5% heal to saurfang, however that would only equate to 3.5m HP. Your single tank strat generated 2.4m HP to this really only leaves you with a 1.1m HP deficit to overcome.

Hope that helps.

[Treston]

It's either been a dps issue for us, or a tank issue, i.e. me or the other tank being negligent on the taunts causing heals, that's been the source of our stumbling block so far.

We are consistently surviving his abilities, slowing his blood power through good kiting, good killing of the beasts and lots of priest bubbles, but it seems every time we've got a good handle on the blood power we hit the hard enrage, which seems to be right at 8 minutes. So our dps needs to pick up a bit, or we need to stop healing so much.

Ran it with two healers last night and the best we got it to was 25% (before the marks healed him back to 35+ of course).

[Anhero]

Thinking outside the box with the 'let the first marks die' strat - if you DI the first mark and have a soulstone on the pally, would you be able to avoid any further BP generation through the DI as well as stop the 5% heal from going off?

This was suggested in raid last night after our final attempts for the night and I thought it might be a decent idea to test out.

Also, other than dying to a mark and letting the tank with the debuff get hit by DBS - is there anything else that heals the boss in the encounter?

[Mr.Winkle]

It's either been a dps issue for us, or a tank issue, i.e. me or the other tank being negligent on the taunts causing heals, that's been the source of our stumbling block so far.

We are consistently surviving his abilities, slowing his blood power through good kiting, good killing of the beasts and lots of priest bubbles, but it seems every time we've got a good handle on the blood power we hit the hard enrage, which seems to be right at 8 minutes. So our dps needs to pick up a bit, or we need to stop healing so much.

Ran it with two healers last night and the best we got it to was 25% (before the marks healed him back to 35+ of course).

I assume you're talking about 10man?

He only heals when the tank he's striking has runic blood. DBM happily dispalys the timeer for it plus announces its application, it shouldn't be an issue switiching at the exact time he does it.

He only has 8.8m HP (i think) in 10man, i wouldn't have thought it was that easy to hit the enrage considering fights like Hodir in 10man Uldy have similar HP pools with shorter enrage timers.

Looking at World of Logs you need a minimum of around 25k raid DPS to get a kill.

[Treston]

With only two heals, I hope I'm referring to 10 man! Whoa!

It was definitely a tank issue for a few of our admittedly few attempts last night. Mainly because as the raid leader for this particular jaunt for the first try or two I was attempting to do my job AND quarterback the whole thing to make sure people were understanding their jobs. Ended up missing the rune application. There were quite a few times when the other tank had his taunt resisted as well. I'll try and talk him into glyphing it for next go round.

I definitely remember dbm timers for the nova, the boil and the beasts, and for when the rune wears OFF a tank (counts down instead of up) but I don't remember seeing one for when a new will be applied, though it does seem to happen pretty quickly when the old one wears.

[Vallyr]

Deathbringer Saurfang's Rune of Blood has been modified to heal 10 times the amount of damage dealt instead of 5 times the damage. This will make the encounter more difficult if you try to tank Saurfang with just one character. The tooltip does not reflect this change, but it will in a future patch.

Single tank strat fix'd. Dont do it.

[Supersick]

You can definitely accomplish this with 1 healer as long as your dps is really good and the healer isn't unlucky. We tried doing it with 1 healer for the achievement but the healer got the first mark and had boiling blood on him at the same time, at that point we had him at 5% before his first mark came. However because of this unlucky mark and bloodboil our healer died and Saurfang ended back up at 12% and we had to wipe it.

However we still got the achievement by using 2 healers the next time, so all in all he isn't so tough.

[Zurena]

We've taken down Deathbringer Saurfang last week and this week. However I've found that the Rune of Blood debuff isn't showing when looking at the other tank in the unit frames.

I see my debuff fine (in both the in the "target of target" frame & my SBF frame) but I'm not seeing it on the other tank either on the focus frame or the target of target frame, (and he's not seeing the debuff on me.)

The boss mods announce the cast so I can taunt off, but is anyone else having this problem? I'm using pitbull 3, and I don't know what unit frames he's using.

[Wars]

I have pitbull 4 and don't have this problem at all. I wish I could help you.

Though there has to be some filtering done which is excluding it accidentally. Since pitbull 3 is a somewhat dated version of the addon, the debuff may fall into some random category which is filtered depending on your actual settings.

[Demongate]

My guild has been workin on him in 25 man but we can't seem to get him down. We use 2 tanks, 6 healers and the rest DPS.

The kiting of the blood beasts has been improving and Saurfang appears to be consistantly using mark of the fallen champion around 60-63%.

We let the 1st 2 marks die unless it is a healer or the boomkin typhooning the blood beasts.

@ 30% we pop bloodlust.

Using this strat our best attempt was 17% before tons of marks went out and we had to wipe it.

I really am puzzled on what we should do now. Any advice?

[Chaedi]

So I'm thinking one of my guilds main problems with this fight is our dps which is only around 85k for 25 man. Does anybody have a guild that has done around this amount overall raid dps and downed him. I'd like to see your WorldofLogs if you have one to see if I can find anything we are doing incorrectly.

Furthermore you can check us out here. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Furthermore is it actually possible to spread everybody out 12 yards apart and if so how many caster classes did you have in order to accomplish this.

Finally it was only mentioned once before so I figured I'd restate it. Shadowfury is actually really helpful for this fight and controlling the Blood Beasts this might be the first time I actually have used this talent and am quite happy to have it for this fight.

Anyways thanks for the help.

[Quenchiest]

So, after 5 wipes just going at it normally tonight in 25 man I decided to employ the "Let the marks die" strat.

First try using it and we downed him with ease without a 3rd mark even getting off. I'd definitely say this is the way to go if people are having trouble.

[Muffin Man]

We've taken down Deathbringer Saurfang last week and this week. However I've found that the Rune of Blood debuff isn't showing when looking at the other tank in the unit frames.

That's odd. I just pull out the other tanks Raid Frame using the default UI and right click and check the 'show debuffs' box. Works like a charm.

The 5 people yelling in vent help too .

Maybe you're ui/addon just needs an update?

@people having trouble. I think the first question you should ask yourself is how many marks are you guys dealing with? and can you do anything to reduce that number?

The marks serve as a soft enrage timer (so I was a little surprised to learn he had one at all). You lose dps/healing when someone dies and he heals for 5% + however much he healed from hitting the marked one to death. So not only is your raid diminished but DBS resets a little bit.

I've only done this on 10 man mode, but we found that focusing on bloodbeast kiting and having ranged spread out and having tanks diligently taunt cut our mark applications from 3 marks and a pre-frenzy wipe down to 1 mark and a kill.

[Mr.Winkle]

So I'm thinking one of my guilds main problems with this fight is our dps which is only around 85k for 25 man. Does anybody have a guild that has done around this amount overall raid dps and downed him. I'd like to see your WorldofLogs if you have one to see if I can find anything we are doing incorrectly.

Furthermore you can check us out here. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Furthermore is it actually possible to spread everybody out 12 yards apart and if so how many caster classes did you have in order to accomplish this.

Finally it was only mentioned once before so I figured I'd restate it. Shadowfury is actually really helpful for this fight and controlling the Blood Beasts this might be the first time I actually have used this talent and am quite happy to have it for this fight.

Anyways thanks for the help.

A quick look at your logs confirms you're keeping the marked person alive, don't do it.

Saurfang gained nearly 300 BP from marked people on your final attempt, that's 3 additional marks and a ton of extra healing required.

I'd suggest using 2 tanks, 5 healers, rest DPS and just letting the marked person die.

You only generated 24 BP via Blood Nova so your ranged were clearly spread out appropriately.

Boiling Blood generates around 300 BP too, but the only way to prevent this is to either have a Disc priest shielding the individual or to have people iceblock/bubble etc (or both if available)

[Zurena]

That's odd. I just pull out the other tanks Raid Frame using the default UI and right click and check the 'show debuffs' box. Works like a charm.

The 5 people yelling in vent help too .

Maybe you're ui/addon just needs an update?

Yep sounds like a UI problem. DXE has nicely been telling me about the mark, so I usually get the taunt off before/as people are calling in vent. Time to upgrade pitbull (and talk with the other tank and see what he's using - since he isn't seeing them on me either.) But it is good to know that it shows up for other people and isn't just bugged.

[nethervoid]

My 10m exclusive guild put in our first set of attempts on Saurfang last night. We were having serious difficulty with controling the adds with:

Hunter
SPriest
Affliction Lock
Boomkin
Resto Sham (earthbind)
DPS DK (chains of ice on spawn)

After trying it with just 3 ranged for a few attempts, we had our druid healer who had transformed to kitty go boomkin. Adds were better but still got loose and killed people (2 shot).

The SPriest was mindflaying, hunter was laying frost trap and using the snare shot, the resto sham was having a hell of a time with earthbind because she can't keep moving around since the range of it is so small (needs to heal). Boomkin was using pushback. What more can we do? Our make up is:

Warrior tank
PUG tank (who knows what we'll get - currently recruiting)

Rogue
DPS DK

SPriest
Hunter
Lock
Boomkin

Resto sham
Holy Pally

On our last attempt we got him to about 40 when the first mark went out, so I know we've got the rest of the fight down no problem, but if the adds get away even one time it seems it's a wipe, which is very frustrating.

Is our ranged DPS just too low? Are you guys killing the adds before they even get to the teleporter? (seems like that isn't the case for us) Should I maybe try and stun if I'm not currently tanking? Seems weird we can't take care of 2 100k adds with 4 ranged.

Ideas?

[Predakhan]

Ideas?

We downed him the first time using one tank but this week had some problems. We decided to switch to 2 tanks and it was WAY easier. He gain BP a lot slower and it was a lot easier on the healers as well.

[nethervoid]

We downed him the first time using one tank but this week had some problems. We decided to switch to 2 tanks and it was WAY easier. He gain BP a lot slower and it was a lot easier on the healers as well.

We're already using the two tank strat. Our ranged is having issues with ranged and healers getting hit by the adds because the adds are getting to them. Although they aren't really moving around to avoid them.

Maybe the tank who is NOT tanking at that moment can taunt a trouble add back through the frost trap or something for extra time? If someone's going to get hit, I'd rather it be a tank since at least they will survive.

[bludwork]

letting people die is probably not a good strat either, frankly I think tankspot should be promoting strats that will work on heroic mode too rather than advocating "let marked person die" and "use 1 tank" type strats