Our resident priest & TS friend Holyjebus suggested we do this 'alternate' strat 3 nights ago, after I'd already pulled the boss & I thought it'd be a great idea. While it didn't work well for us the first time with an 'on the fly' change of tactics, our next couple of attempts were a vast improvement on the conventional tactic once everyone got used to the new positioning. We're still on the comeback from a month off raiding, so the guild's not quite at our former strength yet, however we will have a DrJubali HD video of this on our forums when we kill her (hopefully tonight's raid - Aussie time) since we ran out of raid time 3 nights ago.
Originally Posted by Quinafoi
edit: here's the kill video link Ordnance Videos - Ordnance Home
Last edited by Tygorl; 12-17-2009 at 04:50 AM.
Yup, we managed to get the kill on her tonight using our alternate strat of stacking up near the boss. Video will be up tomorrow - (today afternoon for u americans). Ordnance Videos - Ordnance Home is where it will appear. It was horribly messy right at the end when we hit the enrage, but we were happy to down her since we're rebuilding after a break & have some inexperience in our raid currently so our dps isn't at it's usual standard. Other than that I was happy with our overall control.
Last edited by Tygorl; 12-16-2009 at 04:59 AM.
You can purge Dark Empowerment, if I recall correctly.
Originally Posted by Predakhan
Had trouble with the High Priest trash mobs first off. Dragged one deep into an alcove where the boss encounter adds spawn, strafed around so the tanks back was out of the alcove. This way only the tank was getting hit by the AoE which is similar to Baron Riverdale's aura from Stratholm in Vanilla. While you can burn the mob toe to toe with the raid, why bother, this way is much less stress on the healers.
For the Boss encounter we had both tanks on adds... Burn the casters, then burn then melee. Priority to the misshapen or empowereds... When there is only one melee add left melee switches to boss and a few seconds later all the ranged joins them. New adds in aprox 15-20 seconds... Bloodlust after first wave of adds is down... Rinse and repeat till shield drops. Boss is very squishy...her spell is quick and difficult to time interrupts on... Burn her fast, tanks taunt at 2-3 stacks of the debuff.
Fun fight! Just make sure you mark kill targets during Phase one and call out for melee to switch to boss etc.
Glad to hear my crazy ideas are of use to someone. My raid doesn't run again until the weekend but should be able to take care of business this week.
Originally Posted by Tygorl
This fight seems to be one where 'who does what' specifically is determined quite a bit by your actual raid comp. The strat we've used twice now to get the job done called for 2 melee to sit on the boss while the ranged (plus one more melee one night) took out the adds with the tank.
I presume that this worked out for us mainly because we had both a solid magic based dps (warlock then mage) and solid physical dps (2 hunters, plus a warrior the first night) taking care of the adds.
Without that configuration I suspect things would have been very different. Say if all our ranged were casters with no hunter to back it up, we'd have to pull one of the melee off the boss to take care of the magic immunes.
On the plus side, having all or most of the melee on the boss means that the empowered adherents get a lot less deadly. They're being focused down by the range, true, but there's also less people in close proximity getting hit by their aoe deathchill blasts.
Perhaps next week we'll get to see what it looks like to down her with no one dying, but on both kills so far one or both of our melee weren't paying attention or listening to vent and dropped the shield while adds were still being cleared.
I'm assuming this is talking about 10 man and not 25 man. It isn't really feasible to have ranged only on adds in 25 man simply because the spell reflect will make half of them useless. In 10 man the entire fight is trivialized, just watch your boss mod timers. When adds are spawning, everyone just gank them as fast as possible and get back on the boss.
Originally Posted by Treston
Definitely. Holyjebus actually came up with it during last week's raid & it seemed to work really well for us once everyone got control over their adds. We didn't even know if it was a viable or even thought up strat at the time, but it definitely helped us with the mana shield on the boss being taken down by aoe on the melee mobs when we tanked them next to the boss.
Originally Posted by Quinafoi
It may suit some guilds if they're carrying folks with lower dps or less raid experience than the guild is used to having, which is our current situation. Our raid makeup is probably about 30% new faces due to some folks being on holidays/computer issues etc so we've had some casuals stepping up into slots & accepted a couple of recruits who are less experienced & a smidge under our gear level to get numbers.
edit: HD version is up. Ordnance Videos
Last edited by Tygorl; 12-17-2009 at 03:08 AM.
Reason: HD is up
i wish ppl would stop going on about how easy 10 man is. theres barely any comments about 25man.
I'm interested in this tactic. Have you tried tanking the adds until 2nd phase and just nuking the boss quickly so no more adds spawn and then killing the adds while in phase 2 (in 25 man). I know there would be a problem with a tank taking the boss but i thought someone might have tried this?
From what I have seen in the two weeks we have killed her in 25man, we have not had even the closest ability to just "nuke her down." And then kill adds in 25man.
Here is the log of our kill:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Basically that was with all ranged dps(magic) on the Reanimated Fanatics(need spell damage) and then them also switching onto Deformed X as well. They were on boss about 80% of the time.
I highly doubt you could nuke her down without getting completely overrun with adds, on 25man at least.
The fight isn't overly difficult as it is. Unless you are going for the achievement, no reason to hold the adds. The deformed fanatics would have to be kited full-time anyway if/when you are going to do this(unless that is the one type of add you are going to kill).
Why not just give it some thought yourself.
Originally Posted by Zendyth
The bosses Mana shield has 14m HP.
A good 25man raid will have something like 125k DPS
It would take apporximately 112 seconds too destroy the barrier leaving you with between 21 and 28 adds to kill.
However i'd imagine 28 adds may well be to many for the tanks to tank, plus factor in that you'll have some mutated adds and it doesn't look to feasable to me.
If you're looking for the easiest option just split the raid dps half left/half right and gank each add in turn before dpsing the boss for a bit.
We tried the standard strategy last reset (2 dps teams, one on each side) and the alternative today.
It was the impression of everyone that the alternative works much smoother.
We will probably stick with it.
A few things:
+ you can walk to the back if you hug the wall without aggroing the boss
+ the dps was much higher. Melee doesn't have to run that much, AOE on the melee adds is higher than single targeting them down
- mind controlled raiders, especially melee, can easily die from AOE. We decided to stop AOE when mind control is coming up
- melee easily die from cleaves. picking up the melee and bunching them up is very chaotic. we ceased to put melee on the bunched up adds at all, they were on casters that stood away
Sorry I didn't have time to parse this entire thread or go through my logs completely so I apologize if I repeat something already said but I just thought I'd mention a few things we've noticed in last night's 10 man. I think Pali's can cleanse touch of insignificance during phase 2, my debuff killer popped up while tanking her and I hit cleanse and actually solo tanked her the whole stage (off tank died from bad luck, a frostbolt, 2 skeleton adds and a big ugly with busy healers - crazy mage agro from bubble steal at the wrong time) I never lost agro during phase 2 even though I was at the ninth application of touch, I just kept hitting cleanse every time it lit up. This may be intentional or it may not <shrug> I'll try it again tonight on 25 man.
Also mages can spell steal one of the adds bubbles gaining a HUGE increase to dps for a short period of time. Mage went from 6.5K dps to about 10K right after saying hey I just spell stole his bubble... on a side note his threat went from a steady 5K tps to about an instant 8k tps on the add our off tank was on <chuckle> but he had a great time stealing the bubble from the add every time it was available after he contributed to our ot's death. Initially we were going to wipe it but the mana shield was at about 5% so we kept going. Any insight as to if Touch is intentionally removable and strats around mages spell stealing bubbles for huge burst dps would be nice to read through.
No, mages can definitely steal one of the add's bubbles I believe it's one that grants AOE and uninterpretable giving your mage a really sweet burst of dps. Just watch out for the insta threat they can get. I dont know yet if it works in 25 man. Once our mage figured out he could spell steal he did so every opportunity he had which really helped with bubbled adds. It's only one of the bubbles though the other he couldn't touch. It seemed I could cleanse Touch <confirmation would be awesome>, I had 9 applications / stacks solo mt'ing her and never lost threat and was cleansing every time my bar lit up. It may have been coincidence that it lit up every time she applied touch ?? but cleanse would cast and my threat stayed relatively steady the entire fight.
Originally Posted by Predakhan
Sorry for reposting what I basically said in the previous post
Last edited by Suicyco; 12-18-2009 at 05:44 PM.
Got back in there tonight and one shot her in 25 man using the AoE strategy and standing behind the boss we came up with last week.
I tried the behind the boss strat, and we failed miserably. I don't understand how it is quicker to kill them behind the boss when they take longer to get there! We could literally burn all the adds in 20 seconds max when we're already in the alcoves waiting for the spawn.
We 5 heal-2 to 3 tank this. 4 dps on right and left side. Not just average dps, solid heavy hitters. We stack the double fanatic side up w/ 2 mages + hunter + melee druid. We stack the double adherent side up w/ 2 rogues + hunter + Spriest. We have healers on the back wall. The middle tank is kind of free lance-meaning if he gets a fanatic he brings it to the pally tank side and the paladin takes it from him. If he gets an adherent he has 2 melee dps w/ him he can call on for dps. Everyone else we leave on the boss to burn down. Usually, takes about 2 waves to bring her down 50 % or so pending there are no reanimated adds. We call for help from the ppl staying on the boss exclusively if we need and we require a lot of raid response time for help. Other than that just rinse and repeat-phase 2 the tanks just taunt at 3 stacks of the debuff-everyone is on interrupts-kite the adds and bloodlust. Makes for about a 1-2 min burn phase.
You don't kill the adds quicker, but you increase dps going out because the melee dps can stay on the boss longer, has a shorter distance to run between the mobs and/or Deathwhisper, and the ranged can stack aoes on one group of melee mobs and the aoe is hitting Deathwhisper as well. I wouldn't change if the traditional strat is working but for people who can't burn the adds quick enough could try this strat because there is less dps downtime and more ability to AOE.
Originally Posted by Wars
That's the basic purpose of the strategy. For raids who were doing Trial of the Grand Crusader and running around with 5 people doing 10k DPS on Anub'arak the fight is going to be easy regardless. Even if your DPS doesn't have high activity because they have to run around more, because they are so much higher on DPS raid DPS still exceeds the necessary quotas for the encounter.
Originally Posted by Bnol
The point to the strategy of taking everything to the back of the room is to get things closer together so there is always something for your DPS to DPS, if nothing else, they can beat on the boss. So while your individuals may not be pulling off significantly high numbers, your raid can still meet the necessary quotas by instead of just saying "DPS quit sucking and do more" to instead increase the active time of the DPS. 6,000 DPS at 100% activity nets the same damage as 10,000 DPS at 60% activity.
If your raid has less total DPS, you need to increase their activity to compensate.
Are all of the Deformed/Empowered/Reanimated Adherant/Fanitics immune to their opposite damage type? With all the strats lumping them together and people screwing up their names in strats and posts, I just wanted to ask.
Seems to me that all the Reanimated (skeletons) are immune. The empowered adherants have a shield that must be burned down by melee. And the Deformed Fanatics must be kited because they hit like trucks and heal that ammountx3.
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