Until the paladin is spiked.Originally Posted by Tahriel
Paladins do shine on this fight though.
I notice in the video your tanks reposition him after each whirlwind phase more or less back into his original spot.
How important is it to do this? Is it necessary? Couldn't a raid just pick him up where he stops and readjust the raid's positioning to him?
I ask this because for my raid he was very 'jerky' when we tried to reposition him (lots of 'move and stop, move and stop'), which led to some threat issues.
Actually I think our problem was a third: healers needing to divide their attention to other raid members getting damage. If one of them gets spiked at that point there's only one healer left on the tanks and that's not enough.
For example, we were quickly aware of the aggro wipe after bone storm, but I think people assumed we could taunt him back. So people got aggro and lots of damage from that (if they were lucky).
Another problem was people taking cover behind the tanks, which meant we had to dodge cold flame as well and dodge in the same direction too of course. The flames caused quite a bit of chaos, they appeared and moved a lot faster and more frequent than we had expected.
We'll probably fare better once we get a better grasp of the encounter.
Come to think of it, we didn't have 3 paladins at any given time... We started with a pala and a shaman, then got help from a druid when the shaman left (couldn't handle the wiping) and added a third (pala) healer in the end. It's been a bit of a confusing night, heh.
That said, I don't think holy pala's are a guarantee to get through this fight. Other classes should fare similarly. It all comes down to gear and talent choices if Blizzard balanced things out correctly. I don't think a bias on pala's would be fair to the other healer classes.
You're probably right that the pala's big heals match up well with Morrowgar's big hits on the tanks, but for example hots should help a lot in reducing overall raid damage from people getting hit by flames or bone storm.
As a side question, how many of the people who were successful in defeating him in 10-man are in full or nearly full ToTC-25 gear?
We only recently lost our strict 10-man status on guildox, so we're mostly in ToTC-10 and Ulduar-10 gear. I remember that Ulduar-10 was almost impossible for us too the first few weeks it was available (especially Razorscale and Kologarn), it wouldn't surprise me if IC-10 suffers from the same problem. I recall reading on wow.com that over-geared people caused a problem tuning the 10-man instances on the PTR back then.
To a degree i would agree with you about the gear Haramrae. Whilt obviously not required it does allow for more mistakes to be made and then recovered from. The 2 tanks i linked are porbably repsentative of most of my 10man guild, i.e. some 25man gear from pugging ToC25 but also some TOC10 and even older stuff also.
I wouldn't worry about raid damage to much. Just make sure your dps are quick to react to both the fires and the spikes. I found bone storm to require negligible healing, just make sure everyone keeps running around.
I would say pala/shammy would probably be the best 2man healer team for the fight, we did 3 heal though oouselves.
We got the instagibs after bone storm onour first try, i just had the tanks run after him and conitinue attacking through bone storm on our next attempt. Blowing your CDs when you pick him back up again also allows for both you and your healers to reposition a bit.
We didn't reposition him in our 25 man raid last night and it worked fine.
We completed him and we are a 10 man guild, we only raid 10 man content as a guild (15 players in guild at the moment if i i remember right). Some pugs to ToC 25 has happened to keep some of us entertained so we have a bit of that loot, but no loot over item level 245 until we hit IC. The benefit of us being a small guild though is that most of our members are coated in 245's so we went with a very strong group.
We did feel all the encounters went down very quickly, maybe because we 2 healed everything.
/Tahriel
Is an easy fight, tho we had big issues ,last night, once we figure it out how to handle the Bone Storm phase, our main issue was tank deaths, I was pretty much 1 shooted every everytime i picked him up again after the WW, if not me one of the OT died and was the same thing our stam is decent, 50k each, dodge after the 20% dodge debuff is like 8-9% and parry/block is about 19-23% average.
How many healers should be on each tank? we had 4 healing us (2 on MT 1 on each OT) 1 healing raid and 2 healing Bone Spikes and raid when not. Is that enough?
He hits 17-18k on a tank, the bone storm does ~1200 on plate and 2k+ on cloth, average.
This fight is exactly a mix of Koralon and Leotheras WW phase. Is not hard at all, and tank dmg is not extremely high but is very constant.
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. - Albert Einstein
I assume by the number of healers you are talking about 25 man, so you should have at least 3 tanks (sounds like you did) - if they aren't stacked and you take one of the big swipes it's 300% weapon damage to 2 or even 1 tank and that = death. Makes it super important for the tanks to stay together.
Ok so I looked everywhere I could but I can't find a list of what UI Kanzer is using in this movie. I am really only interested in the one that scrolls his debuff countdown across the screen. Thanks in advance for the help.
Its called Acherus runes.
thank i appriciate it
Struggled a bit tonight on 10 man, after 5 or so wipes we got him down.
Our tanks were taking LOTS more damage than I expected, upwards of 60k damage each (120k total) within a 5 second period. Just very, very tough for our healers to heal through (Shaman, Druid & Disc Priest).
Just didn't seem like "just heal more" or "bring a paladin or two" should have to be part of the strategy here.
We did him yesterday on 10-man. 2-shot, easy fight.
He is taunt immune as people have mentioned, and he will stress out the healers with people getting spiked.
We only had 2 ranged - 3 ranged would have been better for spikes.
Melee damage can safely stand inside the targeting circle and avoid flames.
There is no need to reposition him, but tanks need to be quick to pick him up. Our paladin used frisbee after each bonestorm.
It helps on the transitioning between phase 2 and phase 1, if the tanks use their cooldowns. Then the healers can reposition, if they are caught in an unlucky position because of fires.
Our raid setup was:
Warrior Tank, Paladin Tank
2x DK dps, Ret pally
Balance druid, Arcane mage
Holy pally, Disc priest, Holy priest.
Last edited by manicus; 12-10-2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason: added raid setup
I am the spearhead. I am relentless. I am the last line of defense. I am a Warrior.
Can some1 please tell me the name of that addon in ur UI! It's in background of your chat, spels and recount, like a blood stainDDD plzzzzzz tell me the name of it
Me too also how i can create that blood under map? Soz for offtop.Can some1 please tell me the name of that addon in ur UI! It's in background of your chat, spels and recount, like a blood stain
If your tanks are taking that much damage, I think they're probably doing something wrong. On 25 man, I was taking between 12k and 15k hits every 2 seconds when I didn't avoid an attack. That equates to closer to 6750 dps on each of the tanks, or 33,750 over 5 seconds assuming nothing is avoided.
I think if your tanks were taking that much damage, it's likely they were standing in fire, or very undergeared, or not using armor potions, or a combination of all of the above.
We tried this on 10 man. Two tanks were just taking to much dmg, expecially if a healer got spiked. We tried three tanks second time but the third tank just didnt seem to take dmg. Anyway im looking for confirmation on whether or not three tanks work on 10man.
After wiping all night Wednesday, we killed him on the 2nd pull last night and were rewarded with zero tank loots, just a bunch of caster garbageNote: we're a social/casual guild that raids so our issues will be different than some but probably most people needing advise are in our boat.
The biggest issues for us was the obvious, not getting people off spikes quickly enough and consistantly and positioning. His big, nasty cleave just doesn't seem to discriminate and hits the MT and two other people in front of him. I've seen times when all three tanks were having a group hug and the priest standing 10 yards behind us keels over dead on a Saber Lash. Getting people to GTFO the way and not stand there when he stops Bone Storming and we have to drag him back to the center of the room.
No, he cannot be taunted. You just have to be ready to unload on him as soon as he breaks out into phase 1 again. The DBM timer seems to be off by a good 3-5 seconds and he's 'live' before the timer winds down. I try to make my first two globals a SS and a Conc and slowly back him into the center. The tanks have got to learn to 'dance', making their moves at the same time.
All I can think of at the moment.
your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)
Interestingly we had a TON of problems on 10 man ... and 2 shot 25 man.
It took us 6 attempts. Our major problem was that the tank with aggro was taking the whole Saber Lash damage while the OT even though they were standing on top of me, was taking none.
We finally brute healed through it...but I was asking around and one of the other 2 groups our guild ran that night had the same problem. They managed to figure it out thoughThis sounds plausible:
Since Lord M's hit box is so big, if the tanks are too close to him, the second tank is treated like he's behind (kinda of ala Prince M in Kara...often if belf pallies tanked him close to the wall he could attack you from behind even though he was in front) and as such won't get the saber lash. So, they positioned him...the OT took a few steps back...and the problem ceased.
I wasn't there, so I don't know firsthand what that looked like, but will be trying it next reset.
Any way to lower damage coming in to tanks? Tried this last night on 25 with myself (a paladin) and two warriors tanking, both the warriors would die pretty often (one is really a dps with a 232+ tanking offset). I had 11% (49.5 vs 38.3 and 36.5 avgs) higher avoidance for sabre lashes, but switching me from MT to an OT and moving our worst geared tank to MT (a la patchwerk) seemed to help on the damage going out. Is there any reason to believe that this was actually what was happening or was it just coincidence?
I've been through logs over and over and over and there are times where our worst geared tank would get insta-gibbed via 3 18k sabre lashes. Healing was an issue as we were using 6, and one of our pallys was under 3k hps. I think it's more of a healing philosophy issue than anything.
Anyway so my question is, is there any patchwerk trend people found, something that would cause OTs to have a chance of taking higher spikes?
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