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Thread: 3.3 Blood Frenzy Question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    3.3 Blood Frenzy Question

    Hey all,

    From talking with my guild about the 3.3 patch it would appear that rogues new ideal build will be mutilate, thus stripping the raid of the Savage Fury buff/debuff for the raid.

    I've been a fury warrior for quite some time and they are asking me to go MS to fill that gap.

    Are a lot of guilds finding themselves in this position? Or do most already have an MS warrior that is filling that debuff slot already?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    it's basically lose a rogue's personal dps and make them stay combat, or lose a fury warrior's personal dps to go arms. that's if you don't have an arms warrior already. it then comes down to do you have a feral druid or another fury warrior to keep the 5% crit buff. if not, better make a rogue stay/go combat.

    |Ex Tank|


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    looking at the dps loss of our warrior when he switches to arms, at least for our raids i'm inclined to just do away with savage fury. Right now the difference between our combat & muti rogues isnt anywhere near different to justify making that big deal of savage fury. We'll have to see how much 3.3 changes rogue dps.

    We generally stick with "going with the person, not the spec"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Thanks for the responses so far.

    Our rogues are projecting a gain in personal DPS each of 800-2000. I'm not really a rogue, so I haven't been able to confirm this, but if that's the case, it'll be interesting to see how things play out.

    I need to make a quick edit to the previous statement: 800-2000 over current mutilate DPS. 1000 difference from current combat spec.
    Last edited by Llyrian; 12-07-2009 at 11:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Greetings! I have been seeking more information on this myself.

    Obviously, if you have 2 rogues in a raid then 1 should go mutilate and the other should be combat. In a guild with 1 raiding rogue, there are some things to consider.

    This is all based on spreadsheet calculations and simsheet simulations of patch 3.3 without any in game PTR testing. I am usually the only rogue in our raid with 8 other physical DPS classes as combat. With 9 physical DPS classes, the impact of savage combat is very important.

    For patch 3.3 and my current gear, single target tank and spank:
    Combat goes up to 9800 DPS.
    Mutilate goes up 11400 DPS, without SC or Blood frenzy buff.
    Mutilate goes up to 11700 DPS with SC/BF.

    That's a 14 to 16% DPS increase in favor of mutilate.

    However, with our raid make up and how much DPS each person can do on average, savage combat is worth roughly 2k raid DPS. Meaning that for a rogue that wants to go mutilate from combat, then mutilate must do at least 2K more DPS than combat to overcome the loss of raid DPS. This number will change based on your raid comp.

    As an example, my guild's raid comp:
    In our raids, physical damage accounts for this averaged % of personal DPS:
    Warriors = 100%
    Combat Rogue = 83%
    Hunter (MM) = 70%
    Enhance Shaman = 59%
    Ret = 37%
    DK (blood) = 70%

    Savage Combat increase raid DPS by the following per class:
    2 x Warriors = 4%
    1 x Combat Rogue = 3.32%
    2 x Hunter (MM)= 2.8%
    1 x Enhance Shaman = 2.36%
    1 x Ret = 1.48%
    2 x DK (Blood) = 2.8%

    So I estimate the following:
    Average physical raid DPS due to savage combat = 4 + 4 + 3.32 + 2.36 + 2.8 + 2.8 + 1.48 + 2.8 + 2.8 = 26.36%
    This means for our guild's raid composition and the average physical damage generated, a mutilate rogue must gain at least 26% more DPS than combat spec in order for there to be no change in raid DPS. Since I am predicting only a 14-16% increase in DPS, the raid would lose 10% physical DPS. In terms of numbers, if the combat rogue can do 10k DPS then the mutilate spec must be 12.3K DPS or higher.

    Note: In the case of a boss fight with multiple targets where blade flurry can be used combat DPS is simulated to be around 11200 DPS (heroic jaraxxus, anub, etc). This means that the difference between combat and mutilate is only 2-3% and that with SC buff there is no justification to lose the SC buff.
    Last edited by Brytallica; 12-08-2009 at 02:17 PM.

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