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Thread: Crit while having 545 in defense skill?!?

  1. #1
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    Crit while having 545 in defense skill?!?



    Screenshot tells is all really, i saw it pop op on my screen and couldn't really believe it. After the instance was over, i went back and checked. And there it is, me getting crit, even though i should have 10 defense skill more than is needed.

    Is there any rational explanation for this?

  2. #2
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    A combat log would be helpful. Maybe you had a piece of broken gear prior to the fight? If you are using outfitter and you try to change gear while in combat, the gear won't change out until combat drops. This has happened to me before when I tried to equip a defense set.
    Execute for show, tank for dough.

  3. #3
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    Is the crit actually in the combat log? Did Recount screw up?

    How long after the crit occurred did you take the screenshot? Did you repair before taking the screenshot? Did you swap any gear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  4. #4
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    You have 545 defense with DPS shoulders on?
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  5. #5
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    I think those are a quest reward from Shalozar basin that have the same graphic as the dps set you are thinking about.
    Execute for show, tank for dough.

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  7. #7
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    Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics)

    See Vengeance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    people don't know how to keep it in their pants for a little bit before exploding all over my face.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    You have 545 defense with DPS shoulders on?
    No, those are probably TOC Shoulders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimoos View Post
    Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics)

    See Vengeance.
    Also, see articles here on tankspot about crit immunity and 540 defense. You might be surprised on what you find.

    Strictly speaking, resilience directly contributes to prevention of crits (but it takes an unreasonable amounts of resilience to obtain 100% immunity from crits). But what crit immunity by defense and resilience at reasonable levels do is to push crits off the boss hit table. If the mob has a mechanism to crit, only 100% resilience will save you (which is not really achievable for the purposes of this discussion)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimoos View Post
    Hah, that's what I get for not playing WoW these days... I totally went to wowwiki to see if he did a debuff reducing defense or buff increasing crit, guess I missed it. Oh well, there's your answer:

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Eadric_the_Pure_(tactics)

    See Vengeance.
    Yep... what he said. He has a skill (uses it on himself) that makes him crit. Was pretty shocked and went thro the combatlog myself when I noticed it the first time :S

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Also, see articles here on tankspot about crit immunity and 540 defense. You might be surprised on what you find.

    Strictly speaking, resilience directly contributes to prevention of crits (but it takes an unreasonable amounts of resilience to obtain 100% immunity from crits). But what crit immunity by defense and resilience at reasonable levels do is to push crits off the boss hit table. If the mob has a mechanism to crit, only 100% resilience will save you (which is not really achievable for the purposes of this discussion)
    I'm gonna be honest... I read this first thinking that you thought that 540 defense guarenteed you to be crit immune from bosses (which in almost every case is true) however after re-reading the second paragraph (and running out of breadcrumbs) I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Here is what my response was going to be based off of the first assumption:

    Here's the thing, it is crit immunity because bosses have a flat rate chance of 5% to crit you, so if you reduce the chance a boss has to crit you by 5%, you are technically "crit immune" however, if his crit chance goes up (aka: chance to cause next attack to be a crit!) then the boss all of the sudden has 100% chance to crit on his next hit (so 100% - dodge/block/miss/parry/noncrit) which means he will have a chance to crit and you get crit, even with over 545 defense.

    Also: you cannot get 100% crit immune from resilience, it caps out iirc, however the cap is more than it is possible to stack resil for I believe, but it's been a long time since I've looked at the numbers since the last time it was possible was in TBC and as a warrior in PvP I really don't worry about resil that much these days.

    It also actually takes a very small amount of resilience to get 5% crit reduction, I think it is less than 300.

    Oh and another note, only 100% resil chance to not crit will save you is innacurate. Any attack that is blocked cannot be a crit, therefore an unhittable set can push crits off the table even if the boss has a 100% chance.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  12. #12
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    Ahh, didn't see he had an ability to make him crit. Was simply so shocked that he could, in the first place.

    That clears it up, no longer worried that my character or brain is bugged or anything.

  13. #13
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    The trash mobs also have a ability called Unbalanced Strike which lowers your defense by 100, another mob that I can think of off the top of my head are the elementals in H HoL that increase their crit chance by like 50%

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    No, those are probably TOC Shoulders
    *grumbles about every piece looking the same, I can't tell what set I'm wearing because all the icons are the freaking same

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    No, those are probably TOC Shoulders
    Hmm...I think they are ToC shoulders, but you have the wrong ones.

    Majestic Silversmith Shoulderplates - Item - World of Warcraft are the DPS shoulders from htoc, both of them off the 2nd boss I believe. The DPS ones are purple, and the tanking ones are gold/brown (at least on alliance)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rominoodle View Post
    Hmm...I think they are ToC shoulders, but you have the wrong ones.

    Majestic Silversmith Shoulderplates - Item - World of Warcraft are the DPS shoulders from htoc, both of them off the 2nd boss I believe. The DPS ones are purple, and the tanking ones are gold/brown (at least on alliance)
    Good catch. Wowhead clearly shows brown on both alliance and horde, while his char tab shows the purple-blue shoulders.

    *sigh* Get the durned tank gear on, OP!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I'm gonna be honest... I read this first thinking that you thought that 540 defense guarenteed you to be crit immune from bosses (which in almost every case is true) however after re-reading the second paragraph (and running out of breadcrumbs) I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Here is what my response was going to be based off of the first assumption:

    Here's the thing, it is crit immunity because bosses have a flat rate chance of 5% to crit you, so if you reduce the chance a boss has to crit you by 5%, you are technically "crit immune" however, if his crit chance goes up (aka: chance to cause next attack to be a crit!) then the boss all of the sudden has 100% chance to crit on his next hit (so 100% - dodge/block/miss/parry/noncrit) which means he will have a chance to crit and you get crit, even with over 545 defense.

    Also: you cannot get 100% crit immune from resilience, it caps out iirc, however the cap is more than it is possible to stack resil for I believe, but it's been a long time since I've looked at the numbers since the last time it was possible was in TBC and as a warrior in PvP I really don't worry about resil that much these days.

    It also actually takes a very small amount of resilience to get 5% crit reduction, I think it is less than 300.

    Oh and another note, only 100% resil chance to not crit will save you is innacurate. Any attack that is blocked cannot be a crit, therefore an unhittable set can push crits off the table even if the boss has a 100% chance.
    Aggathon, check out this (slightly dated, but still useful) Attack Table Explanation. Look especially at example 1. It's a graphical example of what you explained, but for others to follow along.

    When he raises crit chance by 100%, it's similar to warrior's block chance by 100%, there are other thing in the attack table that take precedence to crits/blocks/etc. However, it does still raise the crit from zero to a non-trivial amount. I believe you do understand this, your explanation covers this.

    As for resilience being capped, I wouldn't doubt this, but again, getting that much resilience in pve is just dumb anyways, even for a gimmick fight. You still lose the other aspects like miss/dodge/parry/block/etc. which defense gives.

    I think your unhittable set explanation is also correct.

  18. #18
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    It's been discussed before but the hint for the spell appears to be wrong.

    With the buff active he seems to crit you 100% of the time as opposed to increased his chance 100%.

    I tried with 571 defense and 110'ish resilence (Res chant on chest + pvp chant on shoulders + resilence trinket) and still got crit everytime.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    *sigh* Get the durned tank gear on, OP!
    Wapach's Spaulders of Solidarity - Item - World of Warcraft They look exactly the same as the dps shoulders from ToC5, so I can only assume that's what he'd be using

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglybbtoo View Post
    It's been discussed before but the hint for the spell appears to be wrong.

    With the buff active he seems to crit you 100% of the time as opposed to increased his chance 100%.

    I tried with 571 defense and 110'ish resilence (Res chant on chest + pvp chant on shoulders + resilence trinket) and still got crit everytime.

    Assuming it's 100% increased chance to hit, your 571 defense skill is 6.83% less chance to crit, which is just 1.23% chance less from crit cap 5.40%, plus your resil crit reduction which is 1.17 = a 2.4% less to crit

    5.40-5.40+100.00-1.17-1.23=97.6


    Also, for PvE/tanking, Resilience should only be used WITH defense to become crit capped, not be used INSTEAD of it

    He had a 97.6% chance to crit

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