Glyph of Indomitability V. Heart of Iron (Some actual math)

[Raij]

Well, I don't have a Heart of Iron, but just comparing (un raid buffed) my EH using a few diff trinkets:

With Black Heart: 118973.15

With Heart proc: 138296.73

With Eittrig(Heroic): 115084.85

With Indom: 119832.04

So it seems just from the calculator itself that at least the Heart beats out the Indom Glyph whilst procced (which is quite often). Also, raid buffs affect stam more-so than armor, so the Heart would only get better, the Glyph slightly worse. They both have benefits however....but this is just rough stats to help me get my mind around it.

[Aggathon]

So it seems just from the calculator itself that at least the Heart beats out the Indom Glyph whilst procced (which is quite often). Also, raid buffs affect stam more-so than armor, so the Heart would only get better, the Glyph slightly worse. They both have benefits however....but this is just rough stats to help me get my mind around it.

Not necessarily, armor and stam increase eachother. Because stam is hit points and armor effects the damage you take, when you get more stam it is better dependant upon how much armor you have.

Stam increases the value of armor, armor increases the value of stam. Now it is true that armor has a DR curve, but it caps out at 45000(it is 45000, right? or is it 40000... I forget explicitly, pretty sure it's 45000 though) which is 75% reduction. Until you get around 72% or so the DR isn't going to be THAT steep.

It really just all depends on your current levels of stam and armor which one is better. If you have low armor but a really high amount of stam, armor may end up being better, but if you have really high armor but a low amount of stam, then stam is going to be better.

[Raij]

Not sure on the DR cap, just know that I am sitting at 26808 unbuffed with no procs and am no where near it, although I believe I heard it was 45000. Thing is, Stam is beneficial to more than just melee (where armor will only affect melee hits, and I guess buffer your threat a bit with Armored to the Teeth), so on any fight where there is more than 1 type of damage going around, stam is going to be better.

[Aggathon]

Not sure on the DR cap, just know that I am sitting at 26808 unbuffed with no procs and am no where near it, although I believe I heard it was 45000. Thing is, Stam is beneficial to more than just melee (where armor will only affect melee hits, and I guess buffer your threat a bit with Armored to the Teeth), so on any fight where there is more than 1 type of damage going around, stam is going to be better.

I agree with you in general, but 3 points here.

1) Edit: I dum
2) that's not necessarily true of the magic or whatever damage no-mitigatible by armor isn't going to kill you. If you assume the worst with physical + magic damge, you take the percents of each to see if having the more armor would mitigate the physical damage more than stam would absorb the magic damage.
3) But yes, you are correct stam helps all forms of damage whereas armor does not. I guess it depends on how many fights tanks might die from something magical on.

[Raij]

Yah, which is what I am currently unsure of, I haven't seen quite a few of the ICC fights, and no one knows how the hardmodes might play out. But out of the choices I have, I am going to use my Heart until I get the Skeleton Key from badges.

[Aggathon]

Yah, which is what I am currently unsure of, I haven't seen quite a few of the ICC fights, and no one knows how the hardmodes might play out. But out of the choices I have, I am going to use my Heart until I get the Skeleton Key from badges.

Legit, I'd do the same thing in your shoes, although you are on the low end on armor. I actually don't use the glyph of indominability at all. I didn't even mean to buy it, I bought it to run some exact EHP calculations, then forgot to trade it back in! lol.

[Raij]

I almost did that, but then just factored in the armor calcs without buying it for the rough result that tipped me back towards heart. It makes me sad that Eitrigg's Oath is so useless...I liked being close to the dodge DR cap. >.>

[Aggathon]

I almost did that, but then just factored in the armor calcs without buying it for the rough result that tipped me back towards heart. It makes me sad that Eitrigg's Oath is so useless...I liked being close to the dodge DR cap. >.>

isn't the dodge dr softcap like 38% dodge or something? Parry just passes dodge if you have like 20% parry and 28% dodge. I forget all these avoidance numbers because I've never really had to care =/

[Raij]

Thought softcap for dodge was around 32%, could be wrong however.

[Griff]

Yes, both points have some validity and the discussion is really kind of academic honestly.

The real utlity of each trinket is largely dependent on the conditions in which it is being used. Concordantly, it would be a better discussion IMHO to figure out what trinket offers the greatest advantage on a per-encounter basis, no?

[krc]

About 80% of the gormok burst on heroic that will kill you is mitigable while the rest is bleeds. Using TheckHD's N-EH formula on Maintankadin which shows that at 20% magic damage in the burst that kills you, in terms of efficiency it takes 14 armor to make up for 1 stamina.

The Glyph of Indomitability has 1792 armor, divided by 14 means that on Gormok heroic the Glyph of Indomitability's base stats are only worth 128 stamina. I don't think in that situation that the slightly better on use from the Glyph of Indomitability will make up for 34 stamina worth of EH.

But for purely physical damage in the burst that kills you the Glyph of Indomitability's armor is worth around the same amount of EH as the Heart of Iron's stamina so it isn't much of a contest because of the Glyph's use.

[Xianth]

isn't the dodge dr softcap like 38% dodge or something? Parry just passes dodge if you have like 20% parry and 28% dodge. I forget all these avoidance numbers because I've never really had to care =/

The DR cap of dodge is like 80% or something, not sure what is meant by a "DR soft cap" when it comes to something that is just a plain curve with a "start" and an "end".

[Halrloprillalar]

use both (glyph and HoI), IMO. Keep Satrina's for epeen flexing in pugs. Or magic fights. Or something. I hardly ever use it tbh.

Why GOI/HOI combo? the use cd on the two is not shared [personally tested]. == extra survival cd (something like 15% more dodge for 20s). Macro them together. This has saved me quite a few times in a variety of fights.

EH is only one number to go by for a given fight. Most times you can anticipate getting smushed, that's why we have cds. Having one extra is more important than 400EH, imo.

[krc]

use both (glyph and HoI), IMO. Keep Satrina's for epeen flexing in pugs. Or magic fights. Or something. I hardly ever use it tbh.

Why GOI/HOI combo? the use cd on the two is not shared [personally tested]. == extra survival cd (something like 15% more dodge for 20s). Macro them together. This has saved me quite a few times in a variety of fghts.

If you are looking at it from a CD point of view wouldn't a Satrina Glyph or HOI combo make sense? Satrina's on use works against magic damage as well as physical and Satrina's doesn't rely on RNG too miss the ability since it is a straight 4k health. Satrina's also has more EH especially in a high magic damage situation against the Glyph making it a win win.

I would use Satrina/Glyph combo if the damage is pure physical and a Satrina/HOI combo if the damage that kills the tank is more than 10% magic.

[Halrloprillalar]

The reason I suggest this combo is our beloved CotT debuff. After CotT your avoidance is around 25-30%, adding a temporary 15% is a pretty massive boost in survivability.

But to reply to krc, I guess it depends on what you're blowing your cds against. If it's unavoidable damage then there's no question that Satrina's is better. But if it's a massive barrage of fast hard hits and you maybe dropping on heals (example: one OT on marrowgar dies, one of the tank healers gets impaled, etc.) I'd say HOI/GOI use combo is probably better unless you're blowing SI along with Satrina's.

[Aggathon]

The reason I suggest this combo is our beloved CotT debuff. After CotT your avoidance is around 25-30%, adding a temporary 15% is a pretty massive boost in survivability.

But to reply to krc, I guess it depends on what you're blowing your cds against. If it's unavoidable damage then there's no question that Satrina's is better. But if it's a massive barrage of fast hard hits and you maybe dropping on heals (example: one OT on marrowgar dies, one of the tank healers gets impaled, etc.) I'd say HOI/GOI use combo is probably better unless you're blowing SI along with Satrina's.

CotT should not change your gearing/avoidnace choices at all.

And actually your avoidance should be closer to 40%, you're forgetting about miss. (5% base chance for boss to miss + miss from defense).

[Bodasafa]

Wow this threads still going.

After picking up GoI I found it to be quite useful. So I carry both.

I use Satrina's all the time and pair it with HoI for higher magic damage fights or use GoI for higher physical fights.

Really the moral of the story is get both and use them accordingly. Unless you happen to have the Organ of Putricide 10 which would replace the Glyph imo.