# Thread: Unidentifiable Organ. Nifty new trinket in ICC

1. Holy pallies? OP?
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You seem to forget that bosses in ICC will be attacking faster than normal bosses, I'd assume this to have a 100% uptime on bosses, as the effect doesn't just last 10 seconds, it's like Solace of The Defeated, the timer restarts each time a stack is applied.

meaning, after you've got 10 stacks, you're getting a constant 270 stam and 2128 armor.
I have a feeling this will be one of the BiS, along with Corroded Skeleton Key, which is a base 228 stamina.

2. krc
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ICC bosses are not going to be attacking faster they just are going to be connecting attacks more because of Chill of the Throne.

3. Son of Megatron
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1.8procs every 10s = 10.8 PPM. Never did I discuss the exact # of procs in 10s (although the average would end up to be 1.8 in this situation)

The global formula for the stack is:
Average time to build: 5 * time between swings / (chance to connect * proc chance) = 5 * 2s / .36 = 27.78s
Add the chance that it might fall off, you can safely assume 30s for it to get to full.

Chance the buff drops: (1 - chance to refresh) ^ (duration / time between chances) = (1 - .36) ^ 5 = 10.7% chance
Time to drop off = duration / chance to drop off = 93.13s
So you build it up for ~30s and after that it will stick for about 93s. (Let's say 90 to be safe and keep math easy)
270 sta for 90+ + ~135 for 30s over a total of 120s = 236.25 sta on average.
The 90s/120s also corresponds to the 75%ish uptime of the full stack.

Worst part of it all: The sta gives only empty maxHP, so it takes another 2-3 sec before it's healed up to full and it actually becomes 'useful'

4. Originally Posted by WarTotem
The global formula for the stack is:
Average time to build: 5 * time between swings / (chance to connect * proc chance) = 5 * 2s / .36 = 27.78s
Add the chance that it might fall off, you can safely assume 30s for it to get to full.
I think you did something wrong in your math here - at a 2s attack speed, 30 seconds is 15 swings. At a 60% proc chance, even 15 hits wouldn't stack it to ten on average. (Since there is a .36 chance for it to proc, I'd say you need (1/.36)*10 swings to stack it to ten on average. That would be 27.78 swings.)
Chance the buff drops: (1 - chance to refresh) ^ (duration / time between chances) = (1 - .36) ^ 5 = 10.7% chance
Time to drop off = duration / chance to drop off = 93.13s
So you build it up for ~30s and after that it will stick for about 93s. (Let's say 90 to be safe and keep math easy)
270 sta for 90+ + ~135 for 30s over a total of 120s = 236.25 sta on average.
The 90s/120s also corresponds to the 75%ish uptime of the full stack.
I think the average here is rather dangerous - what I want to know is something completely different. What is the chance of it dropping off in twenty seconds? What is the chance of it dropping off in fifty seconds?
I'd really like to see a time/stillup chance graph.
Last edited by Martie; 11-22-2009 at 03:20 PM.

5. Originally Posted by Ulosthegame
You seem to forget that bosses in ICC will be attacking faster than normal bosses, I'd assume this to have a 100% uptime on bosses, as the effect doesn't just last 10 seconds, it's like Solace of The Defeated, the timer restarts each time a stack is applied.

meaning, after you've got 10 stacks, you're getting a constant 270 stam and 2128 armor.
I have a feeling this will be one of the BiS, along with Corroded Skeleton Key, which is a base 228 stamina.
That's what you can use my numbers for - every time it procs, there is an 1% chance of it dropping off ten seconds later when you are taking between five and six attacks per ten seconds.

6. New Registrant
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Isn't 40% avoidance too high? My (not so geared) pally is sitting at 23.5 dodge and 19.3 parry. In ICC the dodge will be 3.5 and parry remains at 19.3. giving 22.8% avoidance. Now these numbers are from an under geared tank and unbuffed but lets say 30% at most. This is of course assuming that blocks DON'T count for stacking this type of on hit proc. If this question has already been looked into then I retract my statements but I think blocks are considered 'hits' in this scenario aren't they? Unless the hit is completely blocked (i.e. not bosses).

7. Glowing Tank
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There's also a base 5% miss chance bosses have against you, plus a similar amount given from defense.

8. hit on the head too often
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Let me see if I can summarize all the math in this thread.

If the boss dual wields, its up 100%
If your tanking 2 or more mobs, its up 100%
If the boss attacks really fast, its up 100%
If none of that applies, it is still up ~80%

2k armor, and at least over 200 stamina on average. On a single trinket. I have to just shake my head in disbelief comparing this to corpse tongue coin. Do blizz item designers just throw darts at a wall? Do they have any concept how good this is compared to the piece of junk that is corpse tongue?

Anyways, Unidentifiable organ is so far better than any other trinket option, that I see no reason not to use both the normal and heroic versions. Given that one procs 24 stam, the other procs 27 stam, it is a fair assumption that you could maintain both procs. I don't suppose anyone has both on ptr and can confirm?

Time to start praying before every gunship 10 kill.

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Originally Posted by Regill
Anyways, Unidentifiable organ is so far better than any other trinket option, that I see no reason not to use both the normal and heroic versions.
Last I checked it said Unique with any item with the same item name. Means you can't use both.

10. It's unique with itself, but not the heroic version. At least that's how the ToGC trinkets worked.

What I think people also aren't considering, if the stam buff is up a lot of other warrior abilities get better. The new T10 4 set bonus, last stand, enraged regen. I'll take a 80% uptime + static armor any day. This trinket seems like pure win to me, especially considering how bad most of the other ones have been.

11. Casual Scumbag
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Originally Posted by Regill

Anyways, Unidentifiable organ is so far better than any other trinket option, that I see no reason not to use both the normal and heroic versions. Given that one procs 24 stam, the other procs 27 stam, it is a fair assumption that you could maintain both procs. I don't suppose anyone has both on ptr and can confirm?
.
Yeh this is what I was wonderign over the weekend, I really hope the procs are indepedant (as they give different amounts anyway) as it would be a pretty insane dual trinket combo.

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Originally Posted by Aggathon
It's unique with itself, but not the heroic version. At least that's how the ToGC trinkets worked.
Didn't they change the way normal/heroic trinkets worked so that they can not be worn together anymore?

13. Originally Posted by JokerFMJ
Didn't they change the way normal/heroic trinkets worked so that they can not be worn together anymore?
I still use 2 Jug's vitalities, although I can only use the on use effect of one of them.

14. Righteous Protector
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They've added special Unique-ItemName tags for ICC, to prevent you wearing the normal and heroic versions of items. e.g.

Corpse Tongue Coin - Items - Sigrie

Has the "Unique: Corpse Tongue Coin (1)" tag.

15. Discotech Priest
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Thats a shame. they just dont want you to gather up 2 imba trinkets together.

16. Originally Posted by Maelstrom
They've added special Unique-ItemName tags for ICC, to prevent you wearing the normal and heroic versions of items. e.g.

Corpse Tongue Coin - Items - Sigrie

Has the "Unique: Corpse Tongue Coin (1)" tag.
They did that with ToC though, and that's what I was saying. The tag ended up meaning that you couldn't get another normal corpse tongue, but you could get a heroic one.

17. Free Shoulder Rubs
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Just got this roughly 20 mins after I read this thread. Using it with heroic Juggernaut's Vitality. Will post results after tonight's 25 m raid in 1hr 15 min.

18. New Registrant
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Agg, can't be bothered actually finding the blue post stating it, but yes, the normal and heroic version of a trinken CANNOT be worn together, but you may have both sitting in your bag etc. They did not however, go back and change the ToC trinkets to fit this model.

19. Originally Posted by Moridin
Agg, can't be bothered actually finding the blue post stating it, but yes, the normal and heroic version of a trinken CANNOT be worn together, but you may have both sitting in your bag etc. They did not however, go back and change the ToC trinkets to fit this model.
Duly noted, thanks for the update sir.

20. Zo
Is So So
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Is there still any need for logs ? We got extremely lucky last night 3 10man groups 3 trinkets.I was planning on running instances all day with it on including a full ToGC25 clear tonight I think... If you want the info I can post it up later tonight.