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Thread: How many DK Tanks are gunning for Shadowmourne?

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I dun think DK tank has such high parry at the moment that we are suffering from DR, show us the math Maelstrom.
    Really? That runs counter to most of the DR curve data I've seen. Can you back that up?

  2. #162
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    I can't, i m not good at math, can you help by showing us the difference?

    A weapon link that has sufficient agility to match shadowmourne should do the job.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    I can't, i m not good at math, can you help by showing us the difference?

    A weapon link that has sufficient agility to match shadowmourne should do the job.
    Except i'm not aware of the figures your alluding to as per the "not suffering enough parry dr," to find such a weapon.

    It's generally accepted that agility via dodge and armor (dodge on a less harsh DR curve by itself, and not being pushed pre-emptively by forceful deflection) carries a higher value for a survival weapon.

    You're suggesting the opposite of what we presume to be true. I was hoping you could at least link to someone else's math to disprove this theory.

  4. #164
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    Did I mention that forceful deflection carries a higher value for a survival weapon?

    Could be a misunderstanding that someone else mention it.

    I did mention that both agility and strength are important. And I was hoping that Malestrom can provide some math or link of a weapon better than shadowmourne.

  5. #165
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    The problem is, it may well be that Shadowmourne is the 'best' weapon in some sense, but there are a lot of situational 'best' weapons out there and it depends on your gearset, the encounter, and other factors.

    The debate really shouldn't need to be as simplistic as "find me a weapon better than this legendary," but rather 'how much strength equates to how much agility for the same point of avoidance gained, and how much armor are you tossing by choosing strength?'

    Realistically, i'd wager any of the heroic agi weapons with 3 sockets would be a better survival weapon via superior avoidance and armor gains. ie. Bloodfall - Item - World of Warcraft Though that does not make it the 'best dk tank weapon' at all times. http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50603 has more raw stam than shadowmourne and the same number of sockets, plus it has hit if your tanking set is lacking there. That brings us back to debating what makes a weapon the 'best,' and it's certainly something we'll have a hard time with until we have a complete loot table and get a good look at what setup works best for the later encounters we have yet to see.
    Last edited by Proletaria; 01-16-2010 at 11:10 PM.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    The problem is, it may well be that Shadowmourne is the 'best' weapon in some sense, but there are a lot of situational 'best' weapons out there and it depends on your gearset, the encounter, and other factors.

    The debate really shouldn't need to be as simplistic as "find me a weapon better than this legendary," but rather 'how much strength equates to how much agility for the same point of avoidance gained, and how much armor are you tossing by choosing strength?'

    Realistically, i'd wager any of the heroic agi weapons with 3 sockets would be a better survival weapon via superior avoidance and armor gains. ie. Bloodfall - Item - World of Warcraft Though that does not make it the 'best dk tank weapon' at all times. Cryptmaker - Item - World of Warcraft has more raw stam than shadowmourne and the same number of sockets, plus it has hit if your tanking set is lacking there. That brings us back to debating what makes a weapon the 'best.'
    This is certainly true and i totally agree to it.

    As i said it is the blizzard designer fault to make DK tank with dps weapon. Perhaps they should start making some 2H weapon with real tanking stats or 1H slow tanking weapon to avoid the gray area.

    If a guild suggest that dps should have Shadowmourne, i m pretty sure they will let DPS have priority over Cryptmaker - Item - World of Warcraft as well

    My thinking is we should have equal stand on any weapon to DPS.
    Last edited by Tank; 01-16-2010 at 11:17 PM.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    This is certainly true and i totally agree to it.

    As i said it is the blizzard designer fault to make DK tank with dps weapon.

    If a guild suggest that dps should have Shadowmourne, i m pretty sure they will let a DPS have Cryptmaker - Item - World of Warcraft as well
    Actually, i would wager the allure of shadowmourne will have the opposite effect. More dps gunning for shadowmourne means less competiton for things like cryptmaker.

  8. #168
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    Well I hope so, base on the the calender, high end raiding guild could possibly only squeeze in 2-3 shadowmourne.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Well I hope so, base on the the calender, high end raiding guild could possibly only squeeze in 2-3 shadowmourne.
    That is true, but if 2-3 of your dps are using shadow's edge, that is quite a bit of competition who are goin to pass up (aside from fury warriors who still need to fill another slot, curses upon them) those other weapons.

    Our raid is melee heavy and we're fielding only (fury warrior, 2 dps dks, 2 ret paladins) 5 people in the "i want that 2h weapon" catergory. If two or three of them decide to bank on shadow's edge a while, i'm loosing 50% of my competitors. Given the sheer amount of tank loot that i don't have to bid on (because the badge gear is so good), there is plenty of dkp left for me to get my hands on a nice weapon early. =)

  10. #170
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    quote from a blue q&a post:

    Q. What are your opinions on Shadowmourne as a death knight tanking weapon?
    A. Shadowmourne was designed as a dps weapon. If you can score one and want to socket stamina in it, I suggest parading around Dalaran just to rub it in.
    -Jimmy

    |Ex Tank|

    TWITCH.TV STREAM


  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destruyen View Post
    quote from a blue q&a post:

    Q. What are your opinions on Shadowmourne as a death knight tanking weapon?
    A. Shadowmourne was designed as a dps weapon. If you can score one and want to socket stamina in it, I suggest parading around Dalaran just to rub it in.
    This looks familiar.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destruyen View Post
    quote from a blue q&a post:

    Q. What are your opinions on Shadowmourne as a death knight tanking weapon?
    A. Shadowmourne was designed as a dps weapon. If you can score one and want to socket stamina in it, I suggest parading around Dalaran just to rub it in.
    I want a tanking Legendary weapon /sigh

    When was the last one? Vanilla WoW, right? Oh well, maybe in Cata! Course, it would probably be a one-handed weapon and sort of not useful for DKs either. We're sort of the bastard children of Tanks.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    I want a tanking Legendary weapon /sigh

    When was the last one? Vanilla WoW, right? Oh well, maybe in Cata! Course, it would probably be a one-handed weapon and sort of not useful for DKs either. We're sort of the bastard children of Tanks.
    Thunderfury was the last tank (though many rogues put it to great use) legendary. And I agree, even if tanks see a legendary in cata it's unlikely that it'll be anywhere near ideal for us.

  14. #174
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    I am on Illidan one of the highest ranking US server for progression granted most of them are on horde side but the ally side isn't to shabby just wanted to let ppl know that myself MT of Relax on Illidan will be getting the Legendary already have Shadow's edge and about 600/1000 on the next quest, also Etain from Warpath another top guild is also getting the legendary.~Granted yes this will go to who deserves it the most but really you can't discount the survivability of this weapon vs other weapons. And for ppl that say yes other weapons have tankish stats like hit and Expertise..but really? there is so much gear with that already on it that its not a needed stat so just because other pieces have it doesn't mean we need to get it. And for those that say that good progression guilds won't give this to DK Tanks..really? again that might be your opinion but the reality of it is that Hardcore guilds can reconize the value of this in our hands and not just the color of the weapon.~anyways my two cents

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by JŠne View Post
    I am on Illidan one of the highest ranking US server for progression granted most of them are on horde side but the ally side isn't to shabby just wanted to let ppl know that myself MT of Relax on Illidan will be getting the Legendary already have Shadow's edge and about 600/1000 on the next quest, also Etain from Warpath another top guild is also getting the legendary.~Granted yes it is mainly this will go to who deserves it but really you can't discount the survivability of this weapon vs other weapons. And for ppl that say yes other weapons have tankish stats like hit and Expertise..but really? there is so much gear with that already on it that its not a needed stat so just because other pieces have it doesn't mean we need to get it. And for those that say that good progression guilds won't give this to DK Tanks..really? again that might be your opinion but the reality of it is that Hardcore guilds can reconize the value of this in our hands and not just the color of the weapon.~anyways my two cents

    They're not getting it because it's better for them than a dps class. They are getting it because they are MVPs in their respective guilds.

    You can read the entire thread if you want the debate, because i'm far too tired to post a summary again, but the bottom line is there isn't any performance gain to the progression raid regardless of who gets it. Chances are good a well-progressed guild will be done with most hardmodes by the time anyone has orange text.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    They're not getting it because it's better for them than a dps class. They are getting it because they are MVPs in their respective guilds.

    You can read the entire thread if you want the debate, because i'm far too tired to post a summary again, but the bottom line is there isn't any performance gain to the progression raid regardless of who gets it. Chances are good a well-progressed guild will be done with most hardmodes by the time anyone has orange text.
    Yea normal Hardmodes but Legendary quest will be completed with the death of LK so im sure multiple ppl will have legendary when Heroic is unlocked. And you say it doesn't make a difference to progressive encounters having this weapon? again im sure this is your opinion but with the survivability from Shadowmourne either in a DPS or DK Tanks hands im sure certain encounters will be easier with it. either it makes the tank last just long enough to kill a boss or the DPS just puts up that last little bit of DPS to finish off the boss. again everyone has there own opinion this is just mine.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by JŠne View Post
    Yea normal Hardmodes but Legendary quest will be completed with the death of LK so im sure multiple ppl will have legendary when Heroic is unlocked. And you say it doesn't make a difference to progressive encounters having this weapon? again im sure this is your opinion but with the survivability from Shadowmourne either in a DPS or DK Tanks hands im sure certain encounters will be easier with it. either it makes the tank last just long enough to kill a boss or the DPS just puts up that last little bit of DPS to finish off the boss. again everyone has there own opinion this is just mine.
    That's the bit though. The survivability/threat gains or the dps gains aren't going to make your raid in a hardmode unless you're literally down to the very wire.

    We're talking about having one or two shadowmournes completed before cata is released for most folks. That is hardly something a raid is going to divvy up based on stratiegic use. It's a prestige item that will go to powerful guild members who can use it.

    I'm quite familiar with the raid leaders and officers in most of the guilds here on Mal'Ganis. We have a lot more hardcore progression guilds than most anywhere else you'll look and even here the shadowmourne recipients are almost entirely founding-members, officers, and GMs. Think of it as a rolex for being with the company for a long time. Sure, it helps you get to work on time too, but it's mostly to show that you're truly dedicated and have done a lot for the team.

  18. #178
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    Hehe yea a really nice rolex >.

  19. #179
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    Shadowmourne - Item - World of Warcraft

    Shadowmourne has 198 stam, 223 strength, loads of crit, loads of AP, the weapon procc and 3 sockets that you can put 3x30 stam gems in. So all in all, this weapon is VERY good for DK tanks, but I would have given it to a DPSer instead.

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