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Thread: New DK Frost Tank seeking advice

  1. #1
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    New DK Frost Tank seeking advice

    Hello tanks. Ive been reading alot of Tankspot, and thanks to all the knowledge here have made vast improvements on my DK Frost tank. However now that im tanking alot of raids, It seems I am in need of a little more direct help!

    I use the basic frost rotation, which is roughly, (Deathchill)HB - BB - BB - Ob - BS - FS (dump), for AE' fights. For single targets I do IT - PS - Ob - Ob - BS - BS - FS (dump). I have all my attacks macrod with Runic Strike, so I get auto RS's everytime it pops.

    Here is my armory link The World of Warcraft Armory

    I have been able to tank VoA 10/25 for the most part, ToC 10, Ony 10 and 25 with no issues. However I seem to get owned on ToC 25, and also ToGC10. (Survivability issues) Even with defensive cooldowns running, I seem to take alot of dmg on those events. To the point where people say I should respec for Blood tanking... I tell them that Blood has less mitigation than frost, (based off of everything ive read here on tankspot).

    Another issue I seem to have is on fights where I am tanking the boss, and that boss is the main focus of the raid. I have threat issues. I use omen, and it just seems no matter what I do, I at some point fall behind on threat.

    How important are Killing Machine and Rime procs for Frost Threat? Do you recommend using HB on a KM proc, or should I FS? What Addon is there that would alert me of both procs with a noise (I dont seem to notice visual alerts to much!) I think im missing alot of KM/Rime procs. Could that be whats causing my threat problems?

    Also im having a terrible time getting my Hit rating up, and I know that effects threat... Should I use my Hit Rating DPS trinket untill I get more tanking gear with Hit? What slots could I upgrade and from what events that would have some hit? Lastly, if you have any suggestions or things I could tweak in my frost spec, please let me know what they are and why.

    FYI I can farm tradeskill stuff, and hit most every raid on a weekly basis, so I can get emblems often. Trophies are a tad more difficult for me to attain at this time. Thanks in advance, any advice would be great... I come from tanking in EQ, and this is a much much different beast! Thanks again tanks.
    Last edited by Blaxius; 11-17-2009 at 02:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    how many tanks do u have in ToC 25? cuz u really need 3 tanks so that u get no more than 2 de-buffs.

    ur specs not 2 bad but i would take points off Icy Reach, chilblains and deathchill, cuz for a tank u dont really need em.

    Icy Touch might be good if ur off tankin 2 get the adds that are after some 1 else, but u got dark command and death grip for that, Chilblains u dont really need because mobs wont be movin round much anyway notso its not really that important and deathchill while it is really usefull its just not a nacessity, id put the points on acclimation and morbidity, extra defence agent magic is always gd, and the more ur hit the better ur defence is agenst that type of magic, cuz it stacks up 2 3 times, while it only gives u a 30% chance its great on bosses that casts beams or flames like in mimiron, ony and the worms in ToC 10 n 25, Morbidity is great, it reduces the time on death n decay u should really try n use this more often, its one of the best aggro abilitys a DK has, and the best way 2 start a fight off.

    id also change ur Glyphs, id put in Glyph of death n decay, adds 20% extra damage, which adds more tps to it, Glyph of unbreakable armor which i believe is a must for any frost tank since blizz nerfed this in the last patch and Glyph of Disease, this saves the use of a rune and refreshes the diseases on all adds around u as well as ur target, plus i think this gives u just as much aggro as IT and PS do anyway, like i sed i think im not to sure on that.

    also while frost gives u the best migration that just means ur ok alround, so on bosses n adds n what ever else u want to use it for, while blood gives u the best suvival, while its not as gd on multipal targets like frost is, altho it can still hold its own, it is the best agenst bosses, it has great threat and like i sed best suvivalbility. i would recommend u atleast try blood tankin out, i use to think the same as u that blood wasnt much gd for tankin till i tried it, it takes awhile to get use to, specally if u used frost from the start like i did but it is the best agenst bosses, have a look at my spec, while its prob not the best out there, i find it best for me, also have a look at Skeleton Jack i always us it for all my DK needs.

    im havin the same prob with my hit rating atm, iv also concidered usin my dps trinket, atm tho my threat is ok so i dont really need it, thats y iv stuck with my tanking 1s, but if u do use ur dps trink id swap it with the ony 1, i think its a crap trink myself for the item lvl it is, ur way over def cap so its not like u need the def u get off it, and parry really isnt as good as what dodge is for DK tanks, and the only other thing u get is +15 fire resist, which u wont really need for most places cuz 1 u got anti magic shell which is great agenst magic. n 2, most of the raids u do will most likely have a pally in it n they have fire resist aura that they can use where ever u need it, so u dont really the extra resist u get off the trink.

    i dont have a clue about KM and rime, they are gd for threat tho.

    also how do u set up rune strike in ur macro so its used every time its up?
    cuz im always havin 2 look n c if i can use it then press the button, but i keep missin it every now n then.
    Last edited by Ltseb; 11-18-2009 at 07:22 PM.

  3. #3
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    Hope this helps!

    ok. i'm going to give this a shot. I personally play a frost DK tank, but, i haven't gotten as far as you have progression wise.

    a lot of what the guy above said, was true, at least, in my opinion. BUT, i don't agree with some of what he said.

    first off, the talent tree i use (glyphs on the right!) (rather then spitting out an ENTIRE line of stuff that makes close to no sense, i figured this would be a lot easier to understand, just toss you a link with what i personally use):

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    secondly. i suggest just gemming stamina till you have 100k hp (not really, but you get the point), as long as you hit with your abilities on a 9/10 ratio, lack of hit rating won't really affect your threat, if you gem in anything other then stamina, go for strength, it really makes a difference with your TPS.

    3rd. rotation. obviously, keep the macro for rune strike, i use it myself. single target rotation is simple, and uses up all your runes, and you only have to wait a second or 2 to start it up again. Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Blood Strike, Blood Strike (do it here so you get the blade barrier proc that much sooner) Obliterate, then Frost Strike (dump).

    AoE rotation: mine varies between 2, based on how lazy i'm feeling at that time, how difficult it is to keep threat with the group i'm in, etc.. DnD, Icy Touch, Pestilence, then just wait for the runes to come back. ooor the lazy one. DnD, Howling Blast, then something to kill the last rune.

    last, but not least, the Killing Machine/Freezing Fog (Rime) procs... i'm not sure if it can make a noise when the proc pops, but you CAN move the visual proc anywhere on the screen, as well as make them bigger, change the appearance of the visual aid, color, etc etc. but try Power Auras Classic - Addons - Curse if it helps, then great!

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    @Ltseb: the rune strike macro is...

    #showtooltip [ability/spell]
    /cast [same ability/spell as above]
    /cast !rune strike
    the ! in front of rune strike keeps it from getting disabled if you mash...
    Last edited by Death Golem; 11-18-2009 at 11:20 PM.

  4. #4
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    i would still recommend glyph of unbreakable armor, but other than that your spec looks much better.

    im a bit of a stam whore myself lol but i like 2 keep a minimum of atleast 4% hit, obviously id like to get up to 8% but most of my gear has expertice, which is why mines so high, which makes getting hit a pain.

    i use DnD agenst single targets and not just for AoEs, its a great way to start a fight and gives you alot of tps fright from the get go, it does kinda screw up your rotation if you use a stricked rotation like most ppl do but its still a good way to start a fight.
    Aslo im not sure if you just missed it out but dont you use Plague Strike in your AoE rotation?

    And thx for the addon link and macro set up, iv seen the addon on a few vids and have been looking for it just had no idea what it was called so thank you very much on that, and thank you for the macro didn't know you could use "!" for what it does.
    Also in your macro you can just use /show or #show and use the "?" as your macro icon then it will show what ever spell your about to use as you icon.
    i use a single button for my rotation by using /castsequence [reset=target] then my spells, will /cast !Rune Strike still work the same way?
    Last edited by Ltseb; 11-19-2009 at 04:51 AM.

  5. #5
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    it SHOULD.. but i don't suggest doing something like that, it doesn't make procs easy to work with, and you're likely to use a killing machine proc on Icy Touch (i do this anyway O.o)

    As for the rune strike macro, i do #showtooltip because it also shows the tooltip of the spell, so it's more like the normal spell when in the action bar, and with bartender setup, i can hide the fact that i'm using the macros (not that it matters)

    if this doesn't make any sense, sorry, i just woke up! lol

  6. #6
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    if you want to be boss tank, reroll to blood:

    more survival
    more (single target) threat


    important point with blood tanking is, to learn using runestrike on your own, cause if you don't you WILL be loosing threat because of too less runic power for glyphed deathstrike

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaxius View Post
    Hello tanks. Ive been reading alot of Tankspot, and thanks to all the knowledge here have made vast improvements on my DK Frost tank. However now that im tanking alot of raids, It seems I am in need of a little more direct help!

    I use the basic frost rotation, which is roughly, (Deathchill)HB - BB - BB - Ob - BS - FS (dump), for AE' fights. For single targets I do IT - PS - Ob - Ob - BS - BS - FS (dump). I have all my attacks macrod with Runic Strike, so I get auto RS's everytime it pops.
    The AOE rotation seems fine.

    For the single target, i'd go with IT -> PS -> BSx2 -> OB -> FS (dump) though. This way you'll get Bladed Armor earlier.

    Here is my armory link The World of Warcraft Armory

    ...

    Another issue I seem to have is on fights where I am tanking the boss, and that boss is the main focus of the raid. I have threat issues. I use omen, and it just seems no matter what I do, I at some point fall behind on threat.
    Are you having enough runic power to use Rune Strike every time it procs?
    I would probably replace one of your glyphs with the Rune Strike one. Probably swap it with the Obliterate one. Maybe Howling Blast one if you're not using a single diesease rotation.

    How important are Killing Machine and Rime procs for Frost Threat? Do you recommend using HB on a KM proc, or should I FS? What Addon is there that would alert me of both procs with a noise (I dont seem to notice visual alerts to much!) I think im missing alot of KM/Rime procs. Could that be whats causing my threat problems?
    I usually try to wait on KM procs to get a Rime and use HB then. However, if i see it's about to run out, i'll use it on FS.

    I use TellMeWhen to track the procs but you can also use Power Auras and probably NeedToKnow.

    Also im having a terrible time getting my Hit rating up, and I know that effects threat... Should I use my Hit Rating DPS trinket untill I get more tanking gear with Hit? What slots could I upgrade and from what events that would have some hit?
    While you don't have Hit rating at the cap, remember that you can use food to get it up.

    Lastly, if you have any suggestions or things I could tweak in my frost spec, please let me know what they are and why.
    If anything, i'd remove chillblains and would grab Scent of Blood for easier runic power generation.

    Your armory also show you have no professions. I'd work on that. There's a thread on the general forum about the best tanking professions, i sugest you try to read it.

    Also, as usual, i advise any new dk tanks to go read Satorri's thread on the Theory forum.

  8. #8
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    I would get rid of Chilblains and put some points into SoB to generate more RP thus making it more viable to use FS on all KM procs.

    When rime procs, wait for a KM to proc b4 HBing.


    as far as addons go, I highly recommend Event Alert, it is visual, but very effective, and it catches my eyes every time, dont remember if you can add sound to it or not, but if not, you can use MSBT, and set it to make a sound when you have a proc.




    Your AoE rotation seems fine, however, I would do something like this:

    Deathchill->HB (glyphed)->PS->Pestilence-> BB->BB ...

    single target:
    IT-> PS-> OB-> BS-> BS-> (Frost Strike dump - wait for runes)-> OB-> OB-> OB-> rinse and repeat.

    and again, whenever KM procs, use FS (never go below 20 RP), when Rime procs, save it for when a KM procs.


    hope it helped some

  9. #9
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    Welcome to my world, until I dual spec'd to tank in Frost and Blood. The first time I tanked ToC 10, I had issues and was spec'd Frost only. After reading Tankspot and looking into Blood, I took the plunge and ditched my DPS spec and spec'd Blood for tanking. It made all the difference for ToC 10 and 25.

    We're pretty close gearwise and I really don't have survival issues in ToC anymore. I use Blood to tank Beasts, Jax (if I have the boss), Twins and Anub (if I have the boss). For FC and if I have adds I switch to Frost. But for the big hit fights Blood is great for the healing; I love Vamp Blood and Mark of Blood. Also, putting Hysteria on your top melee dps, is a nice touch as the boss gets low on health.

    While I love Frost and have always tanked in it, Blood really is great.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

  10. #10
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    Hey all, thanks a ton for all the advice. I changed out some slightly higher stat gear for some lower stat items but itemized for more STR and Hit. I also downloaded one of the addons that alerts me of KM / Rime procs. I make sure I make use of every proc for maximum threat. That in itself is making a huge difference. Also thanks to the suggestion above, bought Hit stat food. So my hits gone from under 100 up to 244 with Hit food on and gear alterations.

    As far as blood tanking goes, I had a blood tank spec first, but I just end up doing adds sometimes, and othertimes main tanking. I was just starting out as a tank then, but I found it a PITA to pick up multible mobs and the Blood Tank spec didnt seem to versitile. Since I cant drop my DPS spec at this time (which is blood), im gonna stick with Frost for tanking, because it seems I can get the job done great (tanked fairly successfully on ToGC10) and totally cleared ToC25 as frost since making the changes suggested here!! So im gonna stick to this spec for now!

    For AE rotation, since Blood Boil is only effected by 1 disease, isnt it pointless to waste runes on Plague Strike and Pestilence? I seem to have no problems holding AE threat with my rotation of Deathchill > HB > BB > BB...etc. DnDecay just doesnt seem worth the 3 runes it costs in most cases, maybe if I specced for it, and glyphed for it, it might be worth casting. Honestly my threat issue was more for single target tanking, and now without missing KMs and Rime procs, it doesnt seem to be an issue anymore

    Also, on Obliterate Glyph vs Rune Strike Glyph, dont you guys think the Obliterate Glyph is better than Rune Strike Glyph? Simply because the Rune Strike Glyph is only helping you while you have aggro? While Oblit is an increase to every single one you cast, even while another tank has aggro so you can stay a close 2nd in threat?

    Thanks again for your help guys, this was a very informative post for me! I hope others get some good info here too.

  11. #11
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    cool mate, seem your well on your way

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribute View Post
    if you want to be boss tank, reroll to blood:

    more survival
    more (single target) threat


    important point with blood tanking is, to learn using runestrike on your own, cause if you don't you WILL be loosing threat because of too less runic power for glyphed deathstrike
    i've boss tanked 10 man ToC as frost with no problem at all..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Golem View Post
    i've boss tanked 10 man ToC as frost with no problem at all..
    making yourself a harder life...but it's not impossible, even though if i wouldn't see toc10 as represantive, because even unholy tank dks could tank it, i guess..

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