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Thread: Frustrated with my crappy dps

  1. #1
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    Frustrated with my crappy dps

    Me: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Arms spec - I gemmed almost all my slots to Expertise, then I gemmed almost all to Strength, now it is all Armor Pen. My average dps is still hovering around 3.5 - 4.5k. There are other warriors with similar gear getting 5k+ on my server...and I read about warriors on other servers getting over 10k (which sounds unattainable to me but that's how I've been conditioned by my crappy server).

    I have read and re-read rotation priorities, and follow them. Maybe my timing is way off? Maybe despite some 245 gear, the other gear is dragging me down? I really have no idea at this point.

    With my gear as it is, what average dps should be expected? I am definately very curious to know this.

    Thanks for any replies!

    fussfuss
    Last edited by fussfuss; 11-18-2009 at 03:25 PM. Reason: adjusted wording

  2. #2
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    I may be wrong on this, but having expertise cap is super important for most melee classes. I believe for arms gemming Str or ArP depends on what your passive ArP is sitting at and if you can reach cap with a proc (you can with grim toll)
    The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason. Talga Vassternich.

  3. #3
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    I gemmed for expertise to see if it made a difference, but I got no better dps with it than gemming exclusively for strength. Armpen has been only a slightly better result (so it seems from last night's raid). Gemming for more points in Expertise, and losing Armpen in the process won't get me another 1k in damage, will it?

  4. #4
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    Probably not but what Ive always been told is that if you cant reach 40-50% ArP w/o gemming for it, you're better off gemming for another stat. Honestly Id think that you'd be at or close to Exp cap without having to gem for it (unlike enhance shamans, poor guys). Youd have to talk to someone who is main spec arms (4th alt is a 80 warrior) to be sure but I think having 26 exp and gemming str would be the best until you have that 40% ArP from gear.
    The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason. Talga Vassternich.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the suggestions! Is there anyone else who might have some feedback?
    Last edited by fussfuss; 11-17-2009 at 01:35 PM. Reason: misspelling

  6. #6
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    try and get the hit cap (definatly the most important of ur stats), then str, then arm pen u should be doing around about 4.5k to 5.5k dps in no time. also have u checked out the proper rotation for ur spec, that could be y u are low on dps. u could add about 500 dps from changing ur rotation. also are u a DW 2h or just 2h, caus the hit cap is much higher

  7. #7
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    The is hit capped for arms, 2h hit cap is 8% and he's just over 8.3 i think
    Last edited by Fealthas; 11-17-2009 at 01:58 PM.
    The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason. Talga Vassternich.

  8. #8
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    He is an ARMS warrior, meaning he cannot DW 2H weaps.

    Hit cap is 8% and Expertise is 26.

    I just had a look and your expertise is 14. You may be missing a lot. I know there is a talent in arms that lowers the expertise requirement, but is it really that much?
    Last edited by MellvarTank; 11-17-2009 at 02:38 PM.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  9. #9
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    mm yeah i no sorry my bad tired been up al night

  10. #10
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    I think, but I'm not sure that too much expertise can be bad for arms warriors because of overpower? (No dodges=no procs?)

  11. #11
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    After expertise/hit caps, Gem Arp. Arp is king stack for Arms warrior, You NEED expertise cap, you get overpower procs from taste for blood, Dodges will just reduce the rage you get and damage you do. One thing to remeber is that you can save taste for blood procs to 1 global before you get the buff again. Just practice your rotation, it's the biggest part.

  12. #12
    You have 18 expertise, and I looked at your talent spec. There is one little, tiny change that can actually up your overall DPS. Switch out your 2 points of imp execute and put them in weapon mastery. You'll be dodge capped, as long as you attack bosses from behind (as you should be doing anyway). Also replace your thunder clap glyph with glyph of bloodrage

    On the rotation, here's what I 'generally' do (and I get an average of 4.5-5k DPS with 25 man raid buffs and the only piece I have above 226 is the bloodshed ring)...

    1: Open up with bloodrage
    2: Charge in
    3: Rend
    4: Mortal Strike (unless execute procs, otherwise execute then mortal strike)
    5: Spam Slam until Tfb procs
    6: Overpower
    7: Mortal strike (unless execute procs, otherwise execute then mortal strike)

    1st point: Basically always have rend up, and never refresh it until it completely drops off, and if your Tfb and OP rotation is timed "perfectly" the last rend tick should apply after Tfb procs the 4th time on your rend uptime. Which you then do OP then reapply rend. Always be prepared for variables so watch your rend debuff. Honestly I don't see much of a DPS difference between doing rend then OP after reapplying. Just wanted to put that in there if you were wondering.

    2nd point: If execute procs when mortal strike is not on CD I always use execute first, then mortal strike.

    3rd point: Spam slam until one of your abilities is off CD. I also use slam if I don't have enough rage for mortal strike. It keeps constant damage up.

    4th point: Don't worry about not having improved execute, your overall DPS will gain substantially more with constant hits since execute is basically a 9% chance to proc until boss is < 20%. So spec into weapon mastery.

    5th point: Gemming for ArP at your gear level is actually smart, good going. Practice on the heroic training dummy (remember to move behind it too after you charge him).

    Bladestorm: For single-target use I only use it RIGHT after an overpower, and if mortal strike is on CD and execute doesn't proc. Again I put emphasis on RIGHT AFTER an OP and ONLY if mortal strike is on CD and if execute is not procced. Timed right, it's a great DPS move and you'll also have a lot of rage after it's done.

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by Darkroman; 11-18-2009 at 03:25 AM.

  13. #13
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    Nice post dark thats exactly the rotation im using...takes some practice but its awesome when u get it right.
    its also the clearest ive seen it explained :P

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkroman View Post
    You have 18 expertise, and I looked at your talent spec. There is one little, tiny change that can actually up your overall DPS. Switch out your 2 points of imp execute and put them in weapon mastery.

    (and I get an average of 4.5-5k DPS with 25 man raid buffs and the only piece I have above 226 is the bloodshed ring)...

    5th point: Gemming for ArP at your gear level is actually smart, good going. Practice on the heroic training dummy (remember to move behind it too after you charge him).

    Hope this helps
    Yes this is a great answer, very helpful!
    -I am definately going to switch to weapon mastery for now, I don't run out of rage often.
    -hmm 5k average with all 226 gear is way better than i am doing. I can't imagine that my rotation is so far off that it is causing me to lag almost 1.5k behind you in a 25 man raid. That is part of why I am so puzzled. I already do your rotation almost exactly the same way. :P
    -haha you know i always wondered why my training dummy numbers were so terribad (even less than in any raid) and now it dawns on me...I have to go behind the dummy, too. duh

    Thanks!

    anyone else have a comment? aside from laughing at me and the dummy

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fealthas View Post
    Probably not but what Ive always been told is that if you cant reach 40-50% ArP w/o gemming for it, you're better off gemming for another stat. Honestly Id think that you'd be at or close to Exp cap without having to gem for it (unlike enhance shamans, poor guys). Youd have to talk to someone who is main spec arms (4th alt is a 80 warrior) to be sure but I think having 26 exp and gemming str would be the best until you have that 40% ArP from gear.
    Without gemming for Exp, it is pretty low on my gear. Like I said though i tried gemming to hit the cap and I didn't really see any improvement, possibly even less dps (because I lost so many Str gems?). I then replaced them with the Arp gems and my dps is slightly better than the Str gems....but I did get a new piece of gear somewhere in there. Maybe the ring.
    I am definately going to focus on getting gear that gets me to 40% w/o gems. I have read this in many diff spots now, noone seems to contest it.

    Thanks again

  16. #16
    are you keeping sunder's up on the boss, or have someone that can? (another warrior, preferably prot, or a rogue works too), sunder's will up your dps quite a bit, maybe 200-500 in extreme cases. And yes, you should get expertise cap of 26, with either gems, gear, or WM too.

    General Consensus says that ArP gems become more potent than STR right around 30-35% WITHOUT battle stance. This is assuming you have a GT or MRS avaliable to you. those trinkets rape mobs in thier sleep, fo sho.

    also, keep in mind, that you'll be able to catch every SD proc and OP proc, as long as you play your cars right with your rotation.

    Priority Rotation:

    Rend-->MS-->SD execute-->OP-->slam-->bladestorm
    MS is placed Before Execute with the fact that MS has a CD, and Execute, both procs and sub 20%, does not.
    My starting Rotationlol forgot rend o.O)


    Beserker stance--->sunderx5--->recklessness--->battlestance--->REND->MS-->slam--->slam--->MS--->OP--->OP--->MS

    If you happen to have an execute during the slam's use that, since your first three attacks will be 100% crits. with OP proc placement, you can actually skip an OP proc during your rotation for an Execute (mainly) or a slam... which will look like this(or something like it, really gotta see it for yourself.) Also assuming you ALWAYS place rend right before MS. I tried to place the given Proc above the skill, during your GCD usage.

    -----------------TfB/SD -------------TfB ------------TfB -------SD -------Tfb/SD -----------TfB
    rend->MS->slam->execute->MS->OP->OP->MS->slam->OP->MS->execute->Execute->MS->OP->OP


    With this above, you have never missed a TfB or execute proc, and have maximized your proc usage while replacing slam with better dps skills.

    So yeah, just play around with it, to get a solid rotation, and there will be sometimes where you'll miss OP procs due to massive chain SD procs along with MS, but you should always prioritize MS before execute when =>20%

    also, BS is a dps loss when you only have 1 target.
    Last edited by Deathsupply; 11-18-2009 at 04:35 PM.

  17. #17
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    well for arm pen to be good u want it stacked high as in like 70% or so but that being said they still nerfed it, i have seen most good warrior dps stacking str these days

  18. #18
    Hit cap is only 263 for arms (8%). The way I usually like to do it is focus on getting gear with hit and expertise, that way it'll leave a lot of room to gem for strength or armor pen. If you can't get to the expertise cap, arrange your talents as needed. If you can't get the hit cap, bring hit rating food and/or hope that you're in a group with a draenei in the raid. Gem as needed.

    What people kinda don't realize is that arms is gear dependant, mainly on stat balance rather than just higher level gear, besides weapons.

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