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Thread: Prot Paladin Talent Clarification

  1. #21
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    Thought I might mention that divinity also increases YOUR healing done, which means more healing from judgment of light, which means more healing aggro generated by everyone attacking the boss.

    Maybe theres no weight behind this but the one time i was MTing and judged wisdom instead of light I had major aggro problems.

  2. #22
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  3. #23
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    JoL is indeed threatless now.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancy View Post
    Thought I might mention that divinity also increases YOUR healing done, which means more healing from judgment of light, which means more healing aggro generated by everyone attacking the boss.

    Maybe theres no weight behind this but the one time i was MTing and judged wisdom instead of light I had major aggro problems.
    Judgement of Light isn't a bad choice as a tool but you're more better off sustaining mana for your skills than minor healing offload. If you got a healing Paladin in your raid, then your JoL gets overwritten every 10 seconds or so because they would refresh the Judgement. Plus the healing scales with SP so the amount would overshadow yours anyway.

    Aggro problems? Either the damage (and therefore threat) output is low or talents are placed in ones not considered necessary.
    Healing is the source of life. Without it, you're left with death.

  5. #25
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    JoL is a flat chance on hit 2% increase in health now, I believe it was 3.2 when the change hit correct me if I'm wrong. It use to be ret pallies not holy pallies who would judge light since healing was based off attack power. In today's day and age it doesnt matter what you judge just make sure wisdom and light are on the boss.

  6. #26
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    Yeah, you can have holy paladins use JoW if you want. It doesn't matter as long as one paladin is putting on each.

    It also doesn't matter now if one paladin overwrites the judgement debuff. Both Protection and Ret paladins put it up faster than the duration of the judgement debuff, so there should be no loss of uptime.

    As a personal pref, I tend to make sure the prot put on JoL and the rets put on JoW.

  7. #27
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    Strictly speaking, Divinity improves JoL's healing, so ret/holy paladins that have it should be judging Light.

    Even then you're talking about making JoL heal a tank for maybe 40 more HP on a tank(others will see a much smaller gain), so what Jere says is all you need to know about who should judge what.

  8. #28
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    So JoL's heal has no threat??? O_o i am pretty sure the dps gets closer to me at the threat metter when i dont use JoL, but.. O_o?? didn't know that..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Strictly speaking, Divinity improves JoL's healing, so ret/holy paladins that have it should be judging Light.

    Even then you're talking about making JoL heal a tank for maybe 40 more HP on a tank(others will see a much smaller gain), so what Jere says is all you need to know about who should judge what.
    JoL is the same regardless who casts it. If you proc it, it is considered as if you healed yourself, much like iLotP.

    That being said, back to the OP
    Divinity is a situational talent, there are stronger general talents. If survival is an issue, between your group's strength/skill/gear or if it's progression for your group, try speccing into it. It may help more, despite slight overheals. If healing is not an issue, then pick something else.

    Your conclusions for Crusader are (generally) correct, in a black box sort of way.

    Divine guardian is really good for the reason mentioned above, having 2 points in imp DG. This means you can keep up SS longer without having to drop something in your 969 to refresh it, extra threat. It's a moot point if you have a holy paladin healing you, you don't keep up SS on yourself (unless you count on putting your SS on your tanking buddy, who is presumably a non paladin).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    JoL is the same regardless who casts it. If you proc it, it is considered as if you healed yourself, much like iLotP.

    That being said, back to the OP
    Divinity is a situational talent, there are stronger general talents. If survival is an issue, between your group's strength/skill/gear or if it's progression for your group, try speccing into it. It may help more, despite slight overheals. If healing is not an issue, then pick something else.

    Your conclusions for Crusader are (generally) correct, in a black box sort of way.

    Divine guardian is really good for the reason mentioned above, having 2 points in imp DG. This means you can keep up SS longer without having to drop something in your 969 to refresh it, extra threat. It's a moot point if you have a holy paladin healing you, you don't keep up SS on yourself (unless you count on putting your SS on your tanking buddy, who is presumably a non paladin).
    No, divinity does increase JoL. It's an irrelevant bonus, but it's there and it can be tested with ease.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    No, divinity does increase JoL. It's an irrelevant bonus, but it's there and it can be tested with ease.
    Divinity increases JoL on yourself, so you are correct as well as incorrect. If a ret hits a JoL you cast, it won't increase it (unless they spec into Divinity for some reason).

  12. #32
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    The increase in health from JoL if you have maxxed out Divinity is laughable. If you do a 5% increase to a 2% heal you get a .1% increase to the heal. So instead of a 2% heal its a 2.1%. Divinity only really comes into play with direct heals.

    To recap you have about 3 spare points that you can allocate depending on where you are in the content and what your role is. 1/1 Divine Sacrifice 2/2 Divine guardian if you are the OT. 3/5 Divinity if you are in progression and need the extra healing as MT. Or 3/5 Seals of the Pure if you feel healing is no longer an issue to bump your boss threat as an MT.

  13. #33
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    <sigh> even after I say that I am talking about a technicality and that I agree the difference is ridiculously small, you guys still maim at that statement. That's hopeless.

  14. #34
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    Not attacking you Synapse just pointing out how pathetic of an increase it is for 5 points. It's like throwing a grenade after a nuclear explosion.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Divine Sacrifice/Guardian is handy, but you don't get it for your own tanking so much as you can get it to support your raid. If you're frequently an off-tank or secondary target, you can use it to help your healers. Usually I see it passed up for the same reasons as Divinity. You can get nicer buffs for yourself and be a stronger tank.
    I want to add to this that a lot depends on your tank/healing setup. If you got 1 Holy Paladin, he should probably have his SS on you (assuming you're the MT) because come 3.3, that's the only way he gets FoL procs. However, you can then use your own DG-enhanced SS on the other tank to protect him from some damage.

    While it rarely benefits yourself (only if there's no Holy Paladin, and then only fully if there's also no Retridin), if you include the benefit for another tank it's a good "tanking talent". Just not as direct.

    A bit like runspeed for DPS, come to think of it. Sure helps DPS, but impossible to really quantify it's power.
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  16. #36
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    Speaking about divinity...
    You also need to understand how healing works...

    Why do Holy paladins don't go for Spell Power so their heals are bigger??

    Because it doesn't matter if they heall 22k or 24k... most of the time their heal has at least a % of overhealing...

    with divinity a geared Holy paladin will crit you for about 27k, without it.. 26k...

    5 talent points for adding 1k to a Holy light its not really that useful...

    I'd say Divinity is useful if you're being healed by a resto druid...

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudNova View Post
    Why do Holy paladins don't go for Spell Power so their heals are bigger??
    We do go for spell power - we just don't gem for it.
    Because it doesn't matter if they heall 22k or 24k... most of the time their heal has at least a % of overhealing...
    No, we gem for other things because some things are better then having bigger heals - like not going out of mana.
    with divinity a geared Holy paladin will crit you for about 27k, without it.. 26k...
    Yeah, but not all holy lights are crits.
    5 talent points for adding 1k to a Holy light its not really that useful...
    It's quite good, but you get more bank for your buck if you spend the points elsewhere.
    I'd say Divinity is useful if you're being healed by a resto druid...
    Nah, not really needed there either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  18. #38
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    Haven't you heard "Enchant to improve an item's strengths, not cover weaknesses" ??

    Divinity is like trying to cover "the weakness" of that holy palas dont gem for SP..

    And well, i think i didn't express myself... obviously if you see an item with 30intellect and 60sp and another one with 29intellect and 90sp... you're going to go for the one with higher SP...

    But you get enough SP from your gear, adding more is just going to be added to your overhealing, like Martie said, not going out of mana is more important, and since holy light is a mana burn......

    But even if you had a huge mana pool, most of the good holy paladins will go for crit/haste instead of SP, since sp is mostly, like i already said (like 4 times), going to your overhealing...

    Have it this way... a warrior doesn't has divinity... does that makes warriors harder to heal?? no...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    .Yeah, but not all holy lights are crits.
    Ok then, to some times add .5k and some times 1k to a holy light...
    Last edited by MudNova; 11-29-2009 at 12:42 AM.

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