# Thread: Wotlk Fury Warrior Guide

1. Big Poppa
Join Date
Dec 2008
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60
A question I had, didnt see in that nice chart up above, but when a mob is at 20% is it better to HS/Slam or is it better to execute during your free GCDs. I read somewhere (oh that great somewhere) that is was better to execute during the GCDs instead. The reason I say just execute is because it seems that doing executes during the free GCDs kills rage too fast to HS.

Im not too worried about my dps, get anywhere from 5.5-6k single target and I am happy with that, but I am looking to see if I can squeeze a lil more out.

2. Originally Posted by mandoro
A question I had, didnt see in that nice chart up above, but when a mob is at 20% is it better to HS/Slam or is it better to execute during your free GCDs. I read somewhere (oh that great somewhere) that is was better to execute during the GCDs instead. The reason I say just execute is because it seems that doing executes during the free GCDs kills rage too fast to HS.

Im not too worried about my dps, get anywhere from 5.5-6k single target and I am happy with that, but I am looking to see if I can squeeze a lil more out.
see the execute section, I do a comparison there.

3. Big Poppa
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Dec 2008
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Ok, so how would HS play into that, like I said and you said in that section execute uses more rage, if I do just slam instead of execute I have enough rage to HS with, in fact rarely do I ever rage starve myself with queuing HS. I was wondering if the amount of damage you get from HS ontop of the slam damage would be better than execute all around?

4. Originally Posted by mandoro
Ok, so how would HS play into that, like I said and you said in that section execute uses more rage, if I do just slam instead of execute I have enough rage to HS with, in fact rarely do I ever rage starve myself with queuing HS. I was wondering if the amount of damage you get from HS ontop of the slam damage would be better than execute all around?
Slam scales with weapon damage where execute doesnt.
If execute is hitting harder then slam is for you then by all means use it, just dont rage starve yourself.

Dont try and compare things by puting HS on top of another abilities damage. You can put HS on top of any other ability so its just complicating the question.

5. Registrant
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Dec 2009
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66
Hello, I am a noob here but I have been reading this thread for a few days...I am a bit new to fury spec, two months now and I have made good progress since I spec'd fury (DW), however I am still a bit puzzled over a few things.

First let me say that I am a work in progress, an early work in progess so as you hopefully look at my build you will keep that in mind.

Conflicting theories on hit rating vs overall damage and expertise has me kinda confused and I was hoping one of the resident gurus here would take a look at my toon and give me a quick bit of advice on where to improve my numbers. What you see in the armor is unbuffed stats.

I picked up a trinket in ulduar last night after leviathan and it raised my hit to 341, and I saw my stats dwindle on dps and damage on the next boss and also a heroic dummy this morning. So I just popped back in my usual trinkets to keep my hit in control. As I am building I can't just go get new armor, doing more raids now so I should be able to pick up some better gear to balance me out.

So , how can I get my dps balanced with overall damage?
(what I mean is that sometimes I can to 800 more dps than the dk or mage under me but a lot less overall damage than them)

I find my dps at around 276 being pretty good on balancing but can I go 341 and not get diminishing returns?

Where should my expertise be? I am mainly concerned with overall, quality damage vs dps (or should I be?)

I notice that the suggested rotation on the first page didn't give me much damage vs what I usually run:
macro BR
BT, WW, Slam (running surge add on to maximise this damage and time)
heroc (as a rage burn)
cleave on multiples
execute
reckleness, heroic throw (I don't like to stance dance)
and of course Victory Rush
now, my dps is roughly 2715 on a heoric dummy for 3 minutes with no buffs

in dungeons it slides from 2000-3600 dpeending on the dungeon I guess.

I am not a math guy but I can see the numbers I am doing and I am just not understanding the hit rating thing, seeing conflicting opinions all over the place here and other sites. (I know hit will go upw ith the better gear I get and by that time I will be doing a load of damage anyway) so would someone be so kind to check me out on the armory and also lend any advice to the questions I have listed?

The World of Warcraft Armory

thank you

6. which trinket did you swap out when you got the pyrite infuser? I have a feeling it was your banner of victory you swapped out. your second trinket (the black heart) is has basically no DPS, making it a good idea to want to swap that trinket for your pyrite infuser.

this is what I think happened to you:

you got the infuser and swapped it in over your banner of victory. the reason you saw a DPS loss was because you basically swapped ArP for hit, and since you are over the soft hit cap, ArP > Hit, which resulted in a DPS loss for you.

the thing to know about hit is that once you are at the soft cap, any additional hit rating will ONLY have an effect on your auto attacks, and even then because of heroic strike basically eating auto attacks it devalues hit even more. having lots of hit isn't a bad thing, but if you are going out of your way to itemize for hit, that is bad.

for expertise you want to be at 25-26 (ideally 26)

as for your rotation, any chance you could put it on some sort of a timescale? I am having a hard time trying to visualize the exact order in which you are pressing your buttons

7. Registrant
Join Date
Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by Thegreatme
which trinket did you swap out when you got the pyrite infuser? I have a feeling it was your banner of victory you swapped out. your second trinket (the black heart) is has basically no DPS, making it a good idea to want to swap that trinket for your pyrite infuser.

this is what I think happened to you:

you got the infuser and swapped it in over your banner of victory. the reason you saw a DPS loss was because you basically swapped ArP for hit, and since you are over the soft hit cap, ArP > Hit, which resulted in a DPS loss for you.

the thing to know about hit is that once you are at the soft cap, any additional hit rating will ONLY have an effect on your auto attacks, and even then because of heroic strike basically eating auto attacks it devalues hit even more. having lots of hit isn't a bad thing, but if you are going out of your way to itemize for hit, that is bad.

for expertise you want to be at 25-26 (ideally 26)

as for your rotation, any chance you could put it on some sort of a timescale? I am having a hard time trying to visualize the exact order in which you are pressing your buttons

Hey thanks!

Actually I swapped out the Black Heart...before I tackled the heoric dummy this morning, I removed the Bloodshed Band to lower the hit because the infuser raised it so much but sdaly, it didn't help.

8. Registrant
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Dec 2009
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Oh, I am pressing buttons as soon as they light up, one ofter the other, of course there are times when I wait a second between becuase some abilities aren't ready yet (if HS isn't neceassry at the time or it's a single mob, I wouldn't use cleave for example obviously). I can time them tonight and post it here if you prefer?

9. Registrant
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Dec 2009
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Or, as a fury warrior should I not be concerned with "quality" damage? I just want it to count, heh - and be high enough

10. Martin Fury Lover
Join Date
Nov 2009
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29
Hey sorry for the inturruption but I'm about to choose the hilt reward and I can't see what is the better sword for me. I thought the str would be better but I will lose so much armpen. Should I take the agility one and then move it to offhand after seeing an icc one drop that is better?

11. Originally Posted by martinbishop
Hey sorry for the inturruption but I'm about to choose the hilt reward and I can't see what is the better sword for me. I thought the str would be better but I will lose so much armpen. Should I take the agility one and then move it to offhand after seeing an icc one drop that is better?
landsouls spreadsheet is saying that agi/arp sword is better

note that this is based on my armory loadout so it could be a bit different your you

12. New Registrant
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Dec 2009
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heya tgm i wonder a thing, i have specced improved HS and got the 10 reduced rage hs glyph so my HS only takes 2 rage when i crit and 25 man buffed i got 50%~ crit with heroic strike and i usually end up spamming it alot (while doing my rotation ofc) and its usually my top dmg and i reach about 6-7k dps in 25 man but you never really said if its good or bad or mentioned it at all so just wondering

13. it costs 2 rage and prevents the rage gain you would have had from a main hand swing.

there is a difference (in my messed up head at least) between using HS on nearly ever MH swing, and spamming it.

spamming it means you are just mindlessly hitting the button really fast with out a care in the world in regards to managing your rage.

using it nearly ever MH swing means you are hitting the button really fast, but more importantly you are paying attention to your rage and can realize when you need to stop.

14. New Registrant
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Dec 2009
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yea ofc i know when i need to stop, but i got the talent for 20 rage from berserker rage so i can use either that one or bloodrage allmost every single time i go low on rage so im always doing great even while watching cds rage boss and slam procs and my offhand alone generates alot of rage, but when i do get low i skip like one or 2 hs to get full rage again then just spamm away ;d

15. New Registrant
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Dec 2009
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sorry to interupt the on going conversation but i was wondering. atm i do about 5-6k on 25man and somewhere ner 5k in 10mans my chars name is skullz, frostmane server,eu. and my rotation atm is bt and ww whenever procs add in insta slam when procs and also spam hs inbetween. with a small change at the start of boss fights where i switch to battle stance do shattering throw and then rend. any ideas on how i could improve my dps with the gear i have atm??? atm i am raiding icc 10man and the tocs on a regualar basis with my guild

16. New Registrant
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Dec 2009
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well i myself would say that if you got gear equal to TGM you should gem like him, which means kinda if you can keep 5k~ ap unbuffed without str gems then gem arp instead

But this is TGM's thread so he is prolly the one who will give the right answer ^^

17. Martin Fury Lover
Join Date
Nov 2009
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29
Hey, I noticed you had the stam/minor speed increase on your boots. What makes this a better enchant than the ap one? Since I figured you would have some math to back that up. Also how much dps did you gain by gemming arm/pen instead of strength?
Martinbishop-Hakkar

18. Originally Posted by martinbishop
Hey, I noticed you had the stam/minor speed increase on your boots. What makes this a better enchant than the ap one? Since I figured you would have some math to back that up. Also how much dps did you gain by gemming arm/pen instead of strength?
Martinbishop-Hakkar
The faster you can get to where you need to be the faster you can dps. Tuskarrs is generally the best enchant for every class.

And how much dps you get from ArP is very dependent on your gear, though its always a dps increase if you can get soft capped with a trinket (53% + mjolnir/grimm toll/NES proc)

i would suggest you get landsouls spread sheet and plug yourself in and see how much dps you would get from it. you can get it here
Warrior DPS Calculation Spreadsheet - Elitist Jerks

19. I have no math that I've done personally, just some blatantly copy pasted info from the enhance shaman section of the theorycrafting think tank on EJ:

Runspeed in some form can be very useful in PvE encounters even if the movement requirements seem very light.

Current Facts:
- Icewalker is ~20 dps more then Cat's Speed
- Icewalker is ~25 dps more then Tuskarr's Speed

From those facts we can derive roughly how much time has to be spent in motion per encounter for runspeed to be more dps then the alternatives.

$\text{Increased Time on Target}=\frac{\text{Encounter Duration} \times \text{Icewalker dps Boost}}{\text{PlayerDPS}}$

$\text{Time spent in Motion}=\frac{\text{Increased Time on Target}}{\text{Percentage Speed Increase}}$

So for a shaman outputting 5000dps on a 5 minute encounter they will have to spend at least 15 seconds in motion for Cat's Speed to be superior to Icewalker.

For this reason it is recommended that raiding shaman keep two pairs of boots. One pair with some form of runspeed and one pair with either an Icewalker or a Greater Assault or (if they are an engineer) a Nitro Boosts enchant. That way the proper boot enchant to use can be determined by the encounter.
if you want to look in to it further there are posts with people making graphs of at what DPS/time spent running run speed passes icewalker
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20765-shaman_enhancement/

I personally like it because of survivability reasons (running from crash on beasts, kiting mobs on FC, kiting anub/scarabs, etc)

as far as the DPS increase from gemming arp goes I really can't give you an exact number because my guild hasn't done ICC yet this week but the spreadsheet says it's ~100DPS currently, but if I was to get a beathbringer's will I would be hardcapped with a food buff and that added a bunch more.

from doing a VoA 25 pug though I can say that my attacks are hitting for about the same amount of damage that they were doing when I was soft capping. DPS is less bursty, I'm not getting crazy 15k BT crits with everything proc'ed. I will see how things go on saurfang this week and report back with my opinions on it.

20. New Registrant
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Dec 2009
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TGM i wonder, the most people i see who actually gem arp are really good geared people who got close to 5k ap even without str gems so i wonder should i gem arp when i got 5k without str gems or is arp better at any moment?