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Thread: Wotlk Fury Warrior Guide

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quietsch View Post
    One question to the talent specs: do you really believe, that 5/5 unbridled wrath are better, than commanding presence?
    assumed that you haven't imp. BoM or another warrior with imp. battle shout with you.
    it is really dependent on your gear. for instance if you were in mostly ilevel 245+ gear I would say commanding shout would be better. but if you were in ilevel 200-213 gear I would say unbridled wrath.

    a big reason for this is because a lot of the players who are new to fury and need the most help with rage management are the ones in with lower ilevel gear, which makes it even harder for them to generate rage, so having UW can really help negate those effects somewhat

  2. #22
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    no, you don't understand the intention behind it.
    According to the data on elitistjerks, UW is an PPM15, which is a 85% chance per hit with a 3.4 spd weapon, to give you 1 rage.
    commanding presence grants 137 additional ap, which will be around 0.3 rage per hit.
    So you'll get 15 rage per minute through UW, or 5.3 rage through commanding presence, but the 137 ap also influence all other attacks, so that they grant a much bigger increase to your total damage output, as UW.
    (As a little, not 100% correct example, with UW you get 3 slams in 3 minutes, with commanding presence you get 1 in 3 minutes, so you have around 5400 damage versus 1803.4 damage. But now there's also the additional damage from the 137 ap in every other attack you deal. And thats even if you only use BT & WW around 25 dps, while the two additional slams only grant around 20 dps.)

    So imho commanding presence ist (much) better than UW, in every situation, in which you haven't imp. BoM or another warrior with commanding presence with you, because even with real low gear, you'll mostly get a increase out of commanding presence. (And, if you are in a 5man heroic/10man raid, you'll be loved from your group, because your buffs are better )

  3. #23
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    that is some interesting data, I hadn't seen that before. but I think what you are assuming is that people who in my opinion could see a lot of use from UW are people who can manage their rage well anyway. commanding presence is more DPS, I totally agree with that, but if you are rage starving your self a lot being able to negate that is going to be a bigger DPS increase.

    UW is in my opinion sort of like having training wheels. with lower quality gear it will give you similar rage generation to what warriors with good gear are doing with out UW, and that way you can practice managing your rage with out being so severely impeded by your gear.

    most of the math out there is based on people not having rage starving issues so you have to take that in to account when thinking about when it could be viable for some people.

    Hopefully that makes sense, I some times have issues trying to put thoughts in to words so if you are confused by this let me know and I will see what I can do to make it easier to understand.
    Last edited by Thegreatme; 11-07-2009 at 09:22 AM.

  4. #24
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    I see what you mean.
    But you must see, that there's a big difference between getting 1 rage every 2 seconds, and getting 20 rage in 1 second (imp. berserker rage), with UW you can possibly in some, rare cases counter a rage hole. With berserker rage, you can counter it in nearly every case.
    The problem with UW is, that it looks (much) better, than it really is. 15 rage/minute might look nice, but it doesn't matter because it can't compensate it, when you have no rage. Sure, every of this facts also applies for commanding presence, but commanding presence grants you pure damage and (less) rage, while UW only grants rage.

    "low" gear: 3500 ap, 212 dps wpn, 3.4spd
    relevant part of the rage generation formula: R = 15d/4c (the other part is only based on static numbers & wpn spd, so it isn't interesting in this case)
    d = (dps+ap/14)*spd; c = 453.3
    You get R = 12.99
    With UW it would be 0.85 more, so 13.84.
    Now 13.84 = (15*((212+ap/14)*3.4))/1813.2
    So you get ap = 3920
    So on the rage generation, it adds ca. 420ap.
    (I must confess, that I wouldn't have thought that.)

    But, it's only the rage generation, where you get a 283 advantage over commanding presence.
    As result of that, UW maybe would be interesting, if you can't use (nearly) every WW and BT, but if thats the case, than you should go for commanding presence.
    (It's again the fact, that commanding presence affects all, while UW "only" works on the rage generation. If you can't use the ap out of commanding presence, UW is better, but in most cases, it would be worse.)

  5. #25
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    nice guide,


    Never spam heroic strike
    always be in control of when you use it.

    In this next clip I am going to be showing you what happens when you do spam heroic strike. Now in this clip I have around 36% chance to crit unbuffed as well as the tier 9 four set bonus which increases heroic strikeís and slamís critical strike chance by 5%. And with rampage that means that my heroic strike has around 46% chance to crit. Because of this high percent chance to crit with heroic strike as well as having a glyph of heroic strike the effects of spamming heroic strike are slightly negated but they are still there.
    NEVER, EVER, spam heroic strike. It is not worth it.
    But i really really disagree with your opionoin about Heroic Strike i spam it on every boss fight and i never get under 30rage with my rotation, i use the talent berserker rage to get 20rage at use, here a screenshot of one of my last fights Voa 25 man 1e boss:

    http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9...sfurypower.jpg

    please let me know what ya think...

  6. #26
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    well looking at your armory you have a lot of crit, 42% crit unbuffed is pretty substantial. that would put you at around 48% crit with raid buffs and because you have 4pc T9 that means your HS has ~53% chance to crit in raids. that will definitely negate a lot of the problems that arise from spamming HS.

    also my definition of spamming is probably a bit different than others, and I will more than likely edit the guide to explain it. to me spamming is more than just hitting a button over and over again, it's that in addition to not paying attention to when you use it. using HS for pretty much every MH swing is fine, but you should be able to know when to stop if you need to, and not just hit the button and then wonder why you are rage starved. the key word in that part of the guide is control. it is vital that you are in control of when you use HS and are not mindlessly hitting a button.

    also I am personally not a fan of imp berserker rage. this is because it is on the GCD and if you have to use it at any time other than your free GCD in the rotation it can cause lots of problems until you can reset the rotation. plus when I was spec'ed in to it I had the terrible habit of using it for rage instead of saving it for breaking a fear on fights like auriaya.
    Last edited by Thegreatme; 11-07-2009 at 12:28 PM.

  7. #27
    Hi, Im new here and i stared reading this guide, i think is great and help me so much, but i still have a few problems whit my fury warrior, wich has very nice weapons but my DPS is very low, i see warrior whit 226 and 213 gear making more DPS than me, and i need to change that, so please, i ask to all veteran fury warriors to help me.

    The first thing, is my rotation in rading:

    1.- I use my trinket for +1000 AP
    2.- Then, i use Death Wish.
    3.- Reckless
    4.- So whit all that i star attacking whit WW
    5.- BT
    6.- HS (rage +60)
    and i make the normal rotation for furys, Slamp when procs and the other ones are in CD.

    But, my DPS is about 5k, which is very low for my guild and for the weapons i have, as i said, low gear warrior furys are making more DPS whit 232 weapons.

    Im also worry for the ArP, i just have 25%, Do i need to put ArP gems? a lot of my gear has more haste than ArP, i guess thats not a good thing...

    Please, help me, i wanna be in the TOC 25 H but i need more DPS, tell me what things i need to change, and what im doing wrong.

    AND if you can advice me to change Fury for Arms or not.

    Thanks.



    My wow armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatme View Post
    Minor Glyphs:

    For your minor glyphs you should be using:

    either:
    Glyph of Battle, which increases the duration of battle shout by 2 minutes
    OR
    Glyph of Command which increases the duration of commanding shout by 2 minutes

    Glyph of Bloodrage, which decreases the health cost of bloodrage by 100%.

    Glyph of Enduring Victory which increases the window of opportunity in which you can use victory rush by 5 seconds.
    I find having both Command and Battle Glyphs more useful than Enduring Victory. In 25 man I have to keep up CS, but in 10 amns or 5 mans we lack imp BoM sometimes and setup benefits from it a lot, so I do Battle Shout. Of course thats useless for someone having few stacks of glyphs on himself at all times, but I don't really think that Enduring Victory is really worth 2 of my inventory slots

    Great guide btw, its so nice to be able to link it in answer to almost every possible question relating fury warriors, or to have it a quick reference in case of memory failure.

  9. #29
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    Impressive, sir!

  10. #30
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    Ok, ive just got back into playing wow again after a leave of absence. Got into a good guild and were raiding ulduar 25 and ToC 25 alls going well Stormrune Edge drops and its great then the tonight it drops again and im told go fury and use both.

    So ive been trying out the rotation and build mentioned in the guide but im only pulling 2.5k dps wereas in my arms build im getting 4k dps on the dummies. I was just wondering what the problem is, im never rage starved but im not capped. i just dont know were im going wrong. This is my armory link any feedback would be much appriciated.

  11. #31
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    Fury is much more gear and buff dependent than arms is (not to say that arms isn't pretty gear/buff dependent either). because of this target dummy DPS is generally a pretty bad comparison.For example a buff like WF not only gives you 20% melee haste, it makes you generate ~20% more rage, which in turn is generally used for HS, which increases the chances you have to get a bloodsurge proc.

    The best way to compare your DPS as fury versus your DPS as arms is to do a fight as both specs with similar raid compositions and then see which spec you are ding more DPS as.

  12. #32
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    I noticed you gemmed str over the ever-popular ArP... This has proven to be a very debatable factor in the past and I'm interested to know your reasoning behind doing so.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatme View Post
    this is true but those aspects are more like side effects of using it. the main reason for using HS is as a rage dump.

    I will edit the guide and mention that though.
    The other aspect of trying to use HS is to convert a white swing to a yellow (special) attack so that it does not miss when you are hit capped.

    HS is rage dump + better hit chance.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    I noticed you gemmed str over the ever-popular ArP... This has proven to be a very debatable factor in the past and I'm interested to know your reasoning behind doing so.
    I'm a bit rusty on the ArP vs Str for warriors, but iirc: If you're not very close to capping ArP (be it with or without procs from trinkets) Str is better. ArP is a bad stat to start with as it scales exponential, and thus you need a certain amount of it before it's better than Str.

    If it's better for Thegreatme I don't know, he has ~20 gems he could swap for ArP, but I don't think that would bring him close enough with his current gear.

    Remember though that all of this may be wrong, so can a warrior sawy person confirm it?

  15. #35
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    Hi, first of all pretty good content.
    But then I have to say as a non native english speaking person it was kind of hard at some points to get the correct meaning due to the grammar (or mostly the formatting I think, more line breaks could help) you mentioned yourself .
    The part with the "use Recklessness before Deathwish" stuff for example was kind of hard to understand at first, had to do a little thinking by myself to figure it out.
    The point is pretty good (never thought about it before), though it is maybe more clearly put that way:
    If you trigger Recklessness first, you won't waste one GCD on it and can put as much special attacks as possible into the Death Wish timespan.

    Have to watch the videos yet, I think they're the really essential part (no sound at the moment).

    Quote Originally Posted by blaubeeri View Post
    I'm also wondering if it's worth using slam after whirlwind but before bloodthirst, just in case that bloodthirst proccs another instant slam. That would completely destroy the fixed rotation though.
    I have to partly agree with blaubeeri at this. The only thing I would disaggree is, that it completely destroys the fixed rotation .
    You would have two rotations then, one 8.5 seconds with two slams (or one slam and one other skill) you would use if slam procs from Whirlwind and the rotation mentioned in the guide.
    You would prefer the first rotation, as it gives one more slam for only 0.5s extended rotation time.

    One would only have to "learn" two rotations, but they are pretty similar in their order, so that is more a case of reacting to the first slam.

    I did a small graphic that should clarify this.



    Please correct me if I did any mistakes here.

  16. #36
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    Now all we need is for someone to completly figure out Arms. TOO MUCH THEORYCRAFTING! >.<

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GronkerLonker View Post
    I have to partly agree with blaubeeri at this. The only thing I would disaggree is, that it completely destroys the fixed rotation .
    You would have two rotations then, one 8.5 seconds with two slams (or one slam and one other skill) you would use if slam procs from Whirlwind and the rotation mentioned in the guide.
    You would prefer the first rotation, as it gives one more slam for only 0.5s extended rotation time.
    I am personally of the mind set that it is better to lose a bloodsurge proc and not delay a BT or a WW. some people prefer to try and use every bloodsurge proc that they get and some are pretty successful with that. the problem I see with that rotation is you are relying on RNG, because if your bloodthirst doesn't proc a bloodsurge, you will end up at a net DPS loss.

  18. #38
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    Why not 3/3 Tactical Mastery? Whenever you switch to Battle Stance for Shattering Throw, you will want 25 rage avalaible to do it asap, but with only 2 points in Tactical Mastery, you are switching stances and only retaining 20 rage which can lead to some lose of DPS if you happen to miss the next white hit, that's why I think that an extra point in Tactical Mastery is better than Iron Will, if not, do you care to explain me why? =)

    On the other hand, Heroic Strike has 0% chance to miss if you are hit soft capped which is the main reason to use it =D

  19. #39
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    could you or some one do a prot paladin guide. It could really come in handy as i would like to switch specc Thankyou

  20. #40
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    Ok, so I tried a bit of theorycrafting and it is possible, that I screwed it up completely, but it was fun dipping a bit into the old math classes again.

    Comparing the two playstyles (One rotation vs. 2 rotations) I did the following:

    For easy calculation assume 20 Rotations (for easy visualization of the percent values) that completely follow the statistics.

    Case a)
    You use the rotation with one Slam at most, all the time. That rotation has an average damage of x and a duration of 8 seconds.
    The damage includes Bloodsurge procing 20% of the time (and this might be a point where my calculation is not correct, but I'm not sure).
    So we have: 20*x/8 = dps

    Case b)
    The damage of the second rotation including 2x Slam is y, its duration is 8.5 seconds.
    Without Slam available after the Whirlwind the damage is still x and its duration is 8.5 seconds.

    At 20% of the time Bloodsurge procs after the Whirlwind, so 80% of the time we will use the default rotation anyways => 16* x/8

    At the 4 remaining rotations Bloodsurge again procs only 20% a second time after the Bloodthirst, so we have another 3 rotations where the dps is x/8.5 and one rotation where the damage is y/8.5.

    That makes a total of:
    16*x/8 + 3*y/8.5 + x/8.5 = dps

    Result
    Now setting case a and case b equal, we get:
    16*x/8 + 3*y/8.5 + x/8.5 = 20*x/8

    After juggeling the numbers around, the result is:
    y = x*1.25 (the units do resolve to damage*s/s and thus to damage)

    That means that the 2 Rotation style is feasable if your damage of the rotation always using Slam if available is roughly 1.25 times your damage of the rotation using Slam only after the Bloodthirst if available.

    That means also, that the average damage of Slam would have to be the average damage of (BT + WW + Slam*0.2 [=> Bloodsurge proc chance])*0.25 (ugh can anyone confirm this thought, I'm just tiping at this time and am not completely capable of thinking this through...)

    Comments
    One weak point in the calculation could be, the procchance of the second Bloodsurge (the one you would want to use in either rotation) is already contained in the x damage, I really don't know if this is ok and I really have no desire to include this in the calculation at the moment.

    However this is completely theoretically and can be highly dependent on your current battle situation as other effects may alter these values completely (WW can for example have a much higher damage value against multiple mobs, you have to watch your rage using another Slam etc.).

    Last Note: The proc chance for Bloodsurge from Heroic Strike is not included and could reduce the multiplier further, as you have a higher chance to have an instant Slam available after the Whirlwind.

    Now I sit back and am pretty curious of how many traps my train of thoughts did run into .

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