DPS needed for 25M Heroic ToGC?

[Deathsupply]

My guild is thinking and considering doing a serious push into ToGC in the future. I'm very skeptical if we're ready for that content and don't want to see a wipe fest there.

Top dps last night on Anub 25 normal was myself and a rogue. We were both sitting at 5.7k and 5.4k respectively.

What kind of numbers are you guys putting out to succesfully pass the enrage and boss timers on NRB and other Heroic 25 encounters in GC?

Also, what should be the number of healers, and tank statistics that we should be shooting for?

almost forgot, current content cleared includes 10/25 TotC and also 4/5 in ToGC 10m, they're best attempt was like 50% on anub... not sure what was going wrong as I was not there during any attempts

[Hamburglar]

If every DPS does about 5k, doesn't die and your strat is solid you should be able to do NRB. That said, if you have people doing 4k and die often you won't have a chance.

[Mr.Winkle]

Well according to World of Logs the avergae DPS required to kill 25man HC beasts is 88k: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Assuming 6 heals and 3 tanks thats 5500 DPS each if you don't include tanks.

If say the tanks do 6kdps between them then its nearer 5k. So perhaps you're a little low, althoug obviously there's some down time on Anub where as beasts is a full burn.

[Sparrta]

First of, these encounters are not just making the enrage timer but also. People not doing dumb stuff. For example standing in fire. The bosses do not just have the more health. I'm guessing you know that. So my point is are you confident that your other guildies are smart and have good awareness. Also how are the rest of your dps. All around 5k?

[Deathsupply]

I wish they were all around 5k.. most are below 4k... some even below 2.5k..

TYVM for the info though, gives me an idea of what to shoot for, I'll let the RL know and hopefully he'll listen... that 25 GC is out of our reach for now.. until ppl get more gear and stop being stupid about "ZOMG there's fire, it's gives me a buff, let me go stand in it!"

10-15 ppl will never get caught in fires, black holes, super uber Baldestorms, and black glowing balls of flying death... but the rest, yeah... they're doomed.

[Mr.Winkle]

Even if you think you may be lacking in some areas it's always worth trying mind. Although if some people are only pulling 2.5k dps then you probably need to bring them up on that.

[Shortypop]

I'd be tempted to go to ToGC once, it might be the necessary "wake-up" call, you can clearly see the timer to the next boss and it might be the impetus people need to improve their dps, they might be slacking 'cos they see ToC as easy and if you're downing bosses easily may not see a "good" reason to push themselves.

I think you need 90k dps to down Icehowl before he enrages but thats including time when he's stunned etc. Anub is probably not the best fight to measure pure dps output as it's skewed by single/multi adds and the burrow phase.

[Thegreatme]

I think you need 90k dps to down Icehowl before he enrages but thats including time when he's stunned etc.

sort of tangent to the topic but back when my guild was learning NRB on heroic we were having issues witht he icehowl enrage timer. this is some math I did:

if we run with the same 5 heal/2 tank/18 DPS comp that means if both of our tanks do ~1800 DPS each our 18 DPS will need to average 6503.7 DPS average. assuming you have 85% DPS time because of the knockbacks and frost breaths and what not this means that we all need to have an active DPS of 7686.7 DPS. and in order to do that we all need to be doing 6352.65 DPS before factoring in the stun.

bring it back to specificly on topic, while these numbers seem a bit high for NRB remember that most strats use heroism in this phase so most of these numbers are pretty doable. if your raiders can average between like 5.5-6k DPS you should not have any problems with DPS until maybe anub'arak but that's mostly AoE so it doesn't count. If you have raiders doing 2.5k it's time to get them to wake up, or just replace them.

[Khue]

I think the real barrier to entrance/success for heroic ToC is Time on Target and mortality. If you can get everyone in the mind frame of balancing out these two things, you will be on your way to success. Keeping everyone alive is the surest way of coming close to a kill. There are mechanics that you will just have to be perfect on. No matter what kind of dps you bring to the party, in p3 of beasts people must dodge Icehowl. If you get a perfect 4 dodge set for the duration that he is alive prior to enrage, you've given yourself a fighting chance at success.

That's an extreme over simplification obviously, but my point is, while raid dps IS important, try not to focus on that as your failure point. Our success on Beasts, did not come until we were proficient at fire dodging. Not losing anyone in p1 is crucial. If you can successfully pull that off, you will be in the right mindset to get this done. A guy who can achieve 6k dps is no good to anyone if he or she is only alive for a fraction of the fight.

[Bashal]

I wish they were all around 5k.. most are below 4k... some even below 2.5k...

That just won't cut it, from the sound of it. The guys with the 2.5k dps need to fix whatever they are doing wrong...I'm assuming they aren't running around in greens and blues, so it would be a spec/gem/enchant issue.

I primarily run 10-mans, but most of the DPS we have can hit 3k in a 10-man easy, many push 5k now. In a 25-man with the extra buffs flying around, people definitely shouldn't be sub 2.5k.

[Kazeyonoma]

I would say 2.5k isn't even a spec/gem/enchant issue, it's a DPS rotation issue.

All dps classes assuming raid geared (i'm not talking BiS, but competitive, all items over 213 ilvl, preferably 232) can put out at LEAST 4k dps as long as they war doing their rotations correctly.

2.5k dps is unacceptable for heroic 25m ToGC, it just won't happen.

you need everyone to be ATLEAST 4.5k to not have NRB bosses coming into you with >5% health on the previous boss, and that's assuming 0 deaths.

[Bashal]

I would say 2.5k isn't even a spec/gem/enchant issue, it's a DPS rotation issue.

Well it's something, all right.

[Deathsupply]

I'd be tempted to go to ToGC once, it might be the necessary "wake-up" call, you can clearly see the timer to the next boss and it might be the impetus people need to improve their dps, they might be slacking 'cos they see ToC as easy and if you're downing bosses easily may not see a "good" reason to push themselves.

hm, sounds like a good plan actually, thx for the suggestion. Maybe some of these people do need a wake up call, since we just mowed straight through 10M... but 25M is not even close to happening by the sounds of it. The replacement is easier said than done, some bodies are better than no bodies. I'd take the dps motivation and fixing into my own hands, but I have a very lack of knowledge with most classes other than my own concerning dps.