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Thread: DW DPS Frost, why slow wpns?

  1. #1

    DW DPS Frost, why slow wpns?

    I have been scratching my head on this one for some time now. Been searching the net but all i find pretty much is ppl saying that you should use slow wpns but never really why.

    This question is being asked often, so just to say it once and for all, don't ever use fast weapons for DW Frost. Even if you have coliseum weapons with 1.6 speed, ilvl 200 blue weapons with 2.6 speed will give you more DPS. The reason for that is because DW Frost has OB as main damage ability and so you want to use slow weapons in both hands for OB to hit harder. Unless your 1.6 weapon has 100 DPS more than your 2.6 weapon you should just give it a spot in your bank.
    Source:Welcome - Ensidia

    Ok, it has to do with obliterate. But why slow wpns, it still doesnt say why.

    Anyone who knows exactly why? What is the mechanic that makes slow wpns better?

  2. #2
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    The same reason slow weapons are preferred for any other instant strike ability -- they hit harder.

    If you have 2 weapons with 200 DPS each and one is 2.6 speed its average damage will be 520. If the other is 1.6 speed, it's average damage will be 320. So even though the attack power is normalized to a 2.4 coefficient for both weapons, you'll still be getting an extra 200 damage per obliterate from the fast weapon. The same effect applies to your offhand damage as well, although you don't get quite as much from it because it only does 57.5% (with talents) normal damage.

    Actually this affects almost every attack you use as a frost DK although it affects obliterate the most because obliterate has the highest weapon damage coefficient. Blood strike, frost strike, and plague strike are all affected by weapon damage as well and you'll be losing quite a bit of damage throughout your entire rotation if you use fast weapons.

  3. #3
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    exactly what Taoden says. DKs habilities are instant (except for rune strike which goes on ur next melee, but okay) so if you have instant casts, and those casts are based on weapon damage, why use a instant cast with a weapons that has 300 damage instead of a instant cast with a weapons that does 500? Both casts are instant, only thing is the damage is increased:

    IT
    PS BS OB FS RS

    those are the spells we will be using on our attacks, as you can see, all of them except for IT are based on weapon damage and are instant casts....


    ...having that in mind, slow weapons that deals 500 damage are better then faster weapons that deals 300 damage, since all spells are instant and based on weapon damage.
    Last edited by Trork; 10-27-2009 at 05:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Thank you for your answers, this was what I was looking for

  5. #5
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    The extremity of the comment is not quite accurate. A 2.6 lvl 200 weapon will *not* out perform a 245 fast weapon. This is also less of a concern for tanks, as the reason we will gravitate towards fast weapons is usually for tanking weapons, which means we are deliberately trading a bit of threat (maybe, depending on what you're coming from) for survival.
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  6. #6
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    All slow weapons have the highest damage potential. Seeing how Obliterate, Frost Strike and other attacks relay on weapon damage, it always is a good idea to go with a slow weapon as they have the highest potential damage.

    However the problem is that they don't specify HUGE upgrades which the fast weapon actually beats a slow weapon in damage. Only in that time is it acceptable to get a faster weapon.

    For example, say a 2.2 weapon has a top end of say...750. And your 2.9 weapon only has a top end of 695. In this case, the better decision would be to use the 2.2 weapon as weapon normalization has come into effect since...ugh, gods knows when but it's been a while! It's got nothing to do anymore with weapon speed other than how fast you attack the mob. You always wanna look at the weapon damage range when it comes to situations like this as the higher one will usually be the good choice to go with.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    The extremity of the comment is not quite accurate. A 2.6 lvl 200 weapon will *not* out perform a 245 fast weapon. This is also less of a concern for tanks, as the reason we will gravitate towards fast weapons is usually for tanking weapons, which means we are deliberately trading a bit of threat (maybe, depending on what you're coming from) for survival.
    i can speak to this actually. I picked up an ilevel 232 Stonerender, which is a fast mace, and I swapped it out with Aledar's battlestar in my off-hand, and there was no noticeable change in my dps. In fact, if anything, I felt that I was noticing a slight increase with the faster weapon, ~50 dps or so. the results may have been much different if it had been in my main-hand, but replacing a slow off-hand with a fast weapon that has a singificantly higher ilevel is completely legitimate. ilevel WILL overwhelm weapon speed if the differential is great enough.

    I think the guys from Ensidia were making a blanket statement that makes a good rule of thumb. it doesn't tell the whole story, however.

  8. #8
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    Extremity/hyperbole is a common sin in the "theory" community.

    Be wary of extreme statements. =)
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  9. #9
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    A slow MH weapon is always prefered, not just for the extra bit of damage for instant attacks, but also because of the way PPM works, as a slow weapon increases the chance a yellow attack procs weapon procs.
    A fast offhand has very little impact on the total Obliterate damage done, and are usually a better choice when playing with proc talents that are not normalized (the old KM based on crits is a good example). Overall those talents are very rare, so the general weapon advice most people seem to give is;
    MH weapon: DPS > speed > stats
    OH weapon: DPS > stats > speed
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  10. #10
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    For instant weapon damage it's a fairly simple formula to work out. You can tell pretty quickly how much higher the dps has to be on your fast weapon for it to hit as hard as the slow weapon with instant strikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
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