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Thread: A druid tank needs help

  1. #41
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    That should be significantly better, jibaikia; that's going to be at least 54k raid-buffed.

    Stack stamina, don't worry about upgrading your gear, don't worry about preparing to actually fight this gormok the stam stacking nazi boss, just stack stamina... don't prepare yourself for any other fights, just stack stamina... forget dodge and expertise, stack stamina... that's about as bad as your analogy.
    Atheia, I'm sorry, but you're not listening and you're still wrong.

    The reason I advocate (along with basically any tank I've ever talked with, and any tank on these threads, and any tank who knows what they're talking about) stacking a good amount of stamina for the content the original poster is asking about is because that's what the fight requires in order to survive normally. Now, if you wanted to do some really weird raid-stacking, you could have some massive rotation of healer CDs, but that's certainly not the easy way.

    The fact is that you need a threshold of stamina in order to adequately survive that fight. You can get it by gemming stamina in your current gear, or you can (as I suspect you'll do) do it by waiting until the next patch hits and get better gear and doing it that way. It doesn't really matter how you do it; you'll do it one way or another.

    Or you won't, and you'll die. Or, more likely - you'll die quite often, but occasionally get lucky and then say 'wow, see, everything is great because I COULD do it without stamina'.

    I don't advocate stacking stamina for every encounter. I don't think it's the right thing to do automatically. I've said as much multiple times on these forums (and been given shit for it) because it's against the common thinking. But in this case, with Gormok? Yes, it's the right thing to do, especially if you're not hugely awesomely geared.

    There's another reason to do it as a bear, which is that bears get more advantage from stamina than any other tank out there. For every point of stamina, bears get 16 health after raid buffs. No other tank comes close to this. Every other tank wishes they got this benefit. That means that if you have multiple tanks of different classes in your raid, having a bear whose specialty is 'take a ton of damage' is maximizing a bear's strengths. That might not be the thing for your raid specifically, but it's often a winning strategy simply because so many fights do favor a large amount of health.


    And I need to read up more on this HToC 25 man... I could have sworn there were other bosses besides Gormok where a well rounded tank would come in handy as well... or maybe it's just a whole lot easier than people made it out to be, high HP means full clear... heh, time to go learn some more. Thanks for the time guys, certainly has been entertaining. See you on another thread....
    There are two fights in ToC heroic that are at all challenging with respect to the tank: Beasts and Anub'arak. Jaraxxus isn't really stressful on a tank, Faction Champs largely ignores tanking mechanics, and Twins doesn't really favor a well-geared tank either (and if it favors anything, it favors boatloads of health to soak magic damage). Well-rounded won't particularly help or hurt you because it doesn't really matter.

    Stacking stamina isn't the answer for the entirety of ToC hard. Point of fact, it's detrimental on Anub'arak for bears. But it absolutely is important on Gormok and Icehowl and even the worms. And if you can't clear that, it doesn't matter how balanced you are for the remainder of the instance; you won't get past the first boss.

    In any event, Atheia, good luck tanking no matter how you choose to. My gut suspicion is that in doing extra stamina you're not going to see any difference doing the content you're doing now because you're already succeeding at it, and your healers will probably say (rightly) that you're taking more overall damage than you did when you had more dodge. That's absolutely true, mind you - more avoidance is clearly better for preventing damage taken than more stamina.

    But for harder fights, it doesn't matter how much dodge you have if you can't take the damage that's coming out when you don't dodge for a couple seconds.

  2. #42
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    As to Algalon specifically - one thing that helped me was to get as much armor as I possibly could. Defender's code, armor on rings, amulet, jewelry, an armor elixir (along with agility)...because reducing incoming damage was really important. I also went with more agility items when possible. Ideally you'll have two trinkets that have an on-use ability so that you can use them as a cooldown when tanking. Use barkskin, then survival instincts or frenzied regen, then your trinket, then an indestructable potion. Between all that, you should be able to survive okay.

  3. #43
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    dmn ... so i'll still get wack by algaron (10 man) ? i mean if i go in with my current gear

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Actually, this should be really easy for you to prove. Find an armory of a tank who has successfully finished ToGC 25 (Maybe even ToGC 10 would suffice?) that did NOT gem and enchant primarily stamina.
    but again, they have the gear for it... that's my point... if you have the gear to stack stamina, fine, stack it... because your other stats, as in yours, are covered.... it's not hard to understand that is it? Or are you really, truly saying that stacking stamina is the only way to go regardless of gear? If so, please say that... stop trying to distort everything I've said.... not one time did I say stacking stamina was bad, regardless... I said in liu of other stats... maybe I should say it like this: If you have the gear that allows for dodge, etc, then stacking stamina is fine, if not, then you're probably not ready to tank htoc25 (as I'm not)... does that help since obviously the other way was going smooth over your head???

    fyi: stacked myself with stamina and you're right, didn't loose that much... still not ready for your precious Gormok, but will be soon enough.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  5. #45
    it's not hard to understand that is it?
    It is because you've got it completely backwards. You're basically saying to worry about dodge and such THEN worry about stamina, which is the exact, 180-degree, polar opposite of what any tank working on progression should do.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    It is because you've got it completely backwards. You're basically saying to worry about dodge and such THEN worry about stamina, which is the exact, 180-degree, polar opposite of what any tank working on progression should do.
    No, you're saying don't worry about dodge or anything else, that it's all about stamina which is not quite the 180 degree polar opposite you claim I'm making but fairly close.

    Every druid tank I've talked to (at least the ones I respect) have said opposite of what you're saying until you have the gear for it... every forum written that I have come to respect (due to people I respect recommending them) say the same thing... so taking a couple of guys who are unable to take what's been said in context word on this would not be in my best interest...

    As for tanks that are working on progression... I'm doing fine with doing exactly what they have told me so until I come to a stand still, I'll go with them...

    We're dancing around in circles and my feet are starting to hurt... have anything new to add or just more of the same broken record *twist words, cherry pick comments, etc*? If so, I'll respond, otherwise, I'm sure this is a waste of my time....

    As for my stats (a work in progress... hence knowing my limits... not uber like you guys, more stam gems would do it, I'm sure)
    38.8 hp
    26.7 armor
    38.45 dodge
    243 hit
    33 exp
    5475 ap
    37.96% crit
    (in bear form)
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  7. #47
    Every druid tank I've talked to (at least the ones I respect) have said opposite of what you're saying until you have the gear for it... every forum written that I have come to respect (due to people I respect recommending them) say the same thing... so taking a couple of guys who are unable to take what's been said in context word on this would not be in my best interest...
    Where are these forums that say that? I sure haven't seen one.

    And what does "until you have the gear for it" even mean? ***You get "geared" for a fight by reaching the EH requirement.*** and this seems to be the point you're missing.

    You seem to be thinking in terms of doing content that you already outgear and thus have the freedom to mess around all you want. If those are your unbuffed stats and you're doing ToC 10, then yes you really just outgear it by a good chunk and thus are plenty free to stack shield block rating if you wanted (Yes, I know there's not actually a gem for that) it won't matter that much, which is probably why you and your guild have this misconception about EH requirements.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Where are these forums that say that? I sure haven't seen one.
    Go to google and type "Feral Druid tanks" have a go....


    And what does "until you have the gear for it" even mean? ***You get "geared" for a fight by reaching the EH requirement.*** and this seems to be the point you're missing.
    Having gear for it means: You have the agility on your gear therefore no need to add agility gems - you have expertise therefore no need to add expertise - you have hit therefore no need to add hit (really, I had to explain that to you???)

    You seem to be thinking in terms of doing content that you already outgear and thus have the freedom to mess around all you want. If those are your unbuffed stats and you're doing ToC 10, then yes you really just outgear it by a good chunk and thus are plenty free to stack shield block rating if you wanted (Yes, I know there's not actually a gem for that) it won't matter that much, which is probably why you and your guild have this misconception about EH requirements.
    And it's toc 25, not 10 (read the thread, don't make it up... it's unbecoming)(but yes, I do toc10 with my guild and others as well... need those precious emblems so I can be uber too) and now you bring my guild into it... it's typical... someone disagrees with trade chat trolls and they don't let up, instead they try and just belittle even more... I'm used to it, actually. As for me being "outgear"ed for places, I do do places where I am more than geared for and also do the raids where I'm pushed.. what's your point? Was there a point or are you just trying to reach further for something? I'm sort of confused... still waiting on you to say that druid tanks do not need to worry about agility or expertise and only stack stamina... I'm patient... I'll wait.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  9. #49
    Having gear for it means: You have the agility on your gear therefore no need to add agility gems - you have expertise therefore no need to add expertise - you have hit therefore no need to add hit (really, I had to explain that to you???)


    That would resemble something that is true if there were a current fight that had an agility or expertise requirement. But they don't. The tank-intensive fights have EH requirements. I'm still not sure why you don't grasp the fact that when a mob is hitting you for 55k, you need to be able to take 55k damage before you start worrying about other stats.

    Never mind. This is just silly, you're going to just keep insisting things that make no sense and then try to be all cute and condescending with your comments when someone disagrees, so this is hopeless.

    You just keep on doing normal modes that you outgear and tell yourself that you're doing it all perfectly, then when Icecrown comes out you can go ahead and outgear ToGC too and start doing that.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atheia View Post
    Go to google and type "Feral Druid tanks" have a go....
    and I'm sure that Darksend's and kalon's blog comes up at the top :P. Kalon is the fine gentleman who is trying to spread the good word about stam for totgc. You've got the major players of the bear tanking world in this forum.

    Let me try this from another side of the coin. My experience in TotGC is playing a holy paladin. If I put a quarter in a jar for every heal I cancel on the first two parts of the beast encounter, I'd have a quarter. The amount of dodge/parry/block/miss a tank has is irrelevant so long as the incoming HPS is greater than the incoming DPS. Dropping health for avoidance would likely just lead to more overheals. Druids have one of the most consistant healing profiles (warriors having a very bursty one), so playing to the strength of being a large stamina slut works out nicely.

    Do the healers/tanks like just spamming the biggest heal over and over again and having the tank stack as much EH as possible? Not really. It's what the encounter calls on. Once you get past the beasts you get two gimmies after it. That's why this thread is all about the beasts. The twins are mostly magic damage and again being a giant sponge works best.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by geros View Post
    and I'm sure that Darksend's and kalon's blog comes up at the top :P.
    Actually, no, they don't come up at the top or remotely close to the top... although Darksend should. Much of his advice on spec's, rotations, etc has change my game and has improved it (I have no idea nor have I ever heard of Kalon)

    Kalon is the fine gentleman who is trying to spread the good word about stam for totgc. You've got the major players of the bear tanking world in this forum.
    If he is doing so at the same time saying that all the other stats for a bear tank is useless then that would explain why I've never heard of him.


    As for the rest, to try and stave off yet another blowhard who doesn't read things in context, rather makes up stuff out of thin air, let me try and clarify my position (one that has been repeated over and over with the other two trade_chat_trolls):

    Avoidance should not be ignored to stack health... more stamina is good, the more HP the better. Ignoring dodge/agility isn't good at all for bear tanks. Not being able to generate threat is bad for bear tanks (any tank for that matter). So, there is no problem in building up your stats to keep a well rounded player and as you get gear that allows you to replace much needed hit/expertise/agility, then throw a stamina gem in. No matter how many coins it is looked at from, no matter how many times the two trolls attempt to try and belittle my progress because I haven't yet tanked heroic toc25, no matter how much they go to forums and have their egos stroked about how uber they are, you'll never get me to believe their formula.

    As for the fights... yes, I know... you need to be able to live through the fights.. that's common sense but there are way too many tanks who are able to reach that level and still have enough of their other stats (oddly enough, the two trolls do from the looks of their gear where as the original poster didn't.... so it's easy for blowhards to say that)... I know plenty who do not have to stack stamina and give up the rest of their stats... I'm one of them.

    As the Bovinity said, I'm going to go now and tank something like deadmines because of course, I'm just waiting on IC to be released so I can upgrade to another easy location (his comments resemble trade channel far more than Felhoofs arrogance did and I didn't think that was possible... god I hope there is more to tankspot than people like them... I'll keep my fingers crossed).
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  12. #52
    If he is doing so at the same time saying that all the other stats for a bear tank is useless then that would explain why I've never heard of him.
    This made me chuckle. Yep, no one's ever heard of Kalon, that scrubby bear.

    I know plenty who do not have to stack stamina and give up the rest of their stats
    No, you don't. I wish you'd stop saying that. There's no reasonable way, with current gearing, to get sufficient/comfortable EH for a fight like ToGC 25 beasts without stacking a lot of stamina. There just isn't. All these tanks that you say you know, all these boards you say you've read, they either don't exist or they're people who've never tried ToGC 25.

    Maybe you know tanks doing regular modes that can get away with not stacking stamina (And I usually swap out stamina for armor/agi on normal modes too, BTW) but that's not what was being discussed here.

    Besides, no one is saying "give up the rest of your stats." You really can't, because we bears get a ton of agility/dodge just by default from all that DPS leather, and a ton of armor too. Hit is generally all over the place since we use rogue gear. Just make sure you pick pieces with expertise when you can and voila. Gem/enchant to beef up your EH level high enough to survive the hits from the bosses and you're golden. You'd pretty much have to go out of your way to roll on...um...cloth or something to "give up" your other stats.

    I dunno, maybe we're all just misunderstanding one another. No one is saying to go out and buy a bunch of, "Of Stamina" greens or something just for the sake of stacking it.

    Your quest to stack other stats is admirable, it really is. Like we've all said, we'd love to be able to gem for a bajillion agility. If the content were any different, you'd be right, too. But it just isn't.

    Stalker time: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Is that you? =)
    Last edited by Bovinity; 10-24-2009 at 10:24 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    This made me chuckle. Yep, no one's ever heard of Kalon, that scrubby bear.
    Sure some people have heard of him, I just haven't.. if it's you, that would explain why.

    No, you don't. I wish you'd stop saying that. There's no reasonable way, with current gearing, to get sufficient/comfortable EH for a fight like ToGC 25 beasts without stacking a lot of stamina. There just isn't. All these tanks that you say you know, all these boards you say you've read, they either don't exist or they're people who've never tried ToGC 25.
    Now you're just calling me a liar, typical yet again. Trolls go to the "burden of proof" strategy. I know several that don't stack stamina at the same time giving up other stats. This is the point you're choosing to miss or your comprehension level isn't high which is okay, I'm a product of public school as well. They stack stamina when they have enough of all the other stats to still have avoidance, mitigation, threat, etc (my point this entire wasteful thread).

    Maybe you know tanks doing regular modes that can get away with not stacking stamina (And I usually swap out stamina for armor/agi on normal modes too, BTW) but that's not what was being discussed here.
    No, they're tanking heroic mode... keep reaching, it's starting to prove my point.

    Besides, no one is saying "give up the rest of your stats." You really can't, because we bears get a ton of agility/dodge just by default from all that DPS leather, and a ton of armor too. Hit is generally all over the place since we use rogue gear. Just make sure you pick pieces with expertise when you can and voila. Gem/enchant to beef up your EH level high enough to survive the hits from the bosses and you're golden. You'd pretty much have to go out of your way to roll on...um...cloth or something to "give up" your other stats.
    and back to my point, you're almost there... making me proud... provided the rest of your stats are in order, which the original posters stats weren't (nor mine), using the gear you have so little faith in in one post and then change here, stacking stamina is just fine... have even said I'd like to be at the point (which I'm just about there) to do just that.

    I dunno, maybe we're all just misunderstanding one another. No one is saying to go out and buy a bunch of, "Of Stamina" greens or something just for the sake of stacking it.
    No, we're not misunderstanding... you are pretty easy to get, that's proven...

    Your quest to stack other stats is admirable, it really is. Like we've all said, we'd love to be able to gem for a bajillion agility. If the content were any different, you'd be right, too. But it just isn't.
    quote one place I said to stack the other stats? (that's the misunderstanding, you're not capable of comprehending the thread or just not reading it at all)

    Stalker time: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Is that you? =)
    Yeah, that's me... and you'll notice, as I have said, I did the stam stacking to see how things went... luckily my gear is at a point that it didn't make a HUGE difference but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to people that don't have the gear (working on my new helm today, should be able to get it and my hit will be where I need it... may even add another stam gem for kicks)

    Keep reaching, troll... surely you'll find something to conjure up.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  14. #54
    Yes, burden of proof. You're making claims that basically contradict the experience of pretty much everyone in the tanking community (You know, people who have actually done the content that's being discussed) calling people trolls when they disagree, and don't have anything to back it up.

    ...who's trolling?

    Someone just lock this thread already. You're not here to learn anything, you're not going to learn anything, and worst case scenario is someone actually listens to you.
    Last edited by Bovinity; 10-24-2009 at 03:31 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Yes, burden of proof. You're making claims that basically contradict the experience of pretty much everyone in the tanking community (You know, people who have actually done the content that's being discussed) calling people trolls when they disagree, and don't have anything to back it up.

    ...who's trolling?

    Someone just lock this thread already. You're not here to learn anything, you're not going to learn anything, and worst case scenario is someone actually listens to you.

    Aww, see now you just got butt hurt... and hopefully someone DOES listen to me... so they know that you do not ignore your avoidance, mitigation, etc for stam when you don't have the gear to do so... it's done by plenty of people... and I do know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's you and your arrogance that can't stand it... it's eating you up... that's what trolls do, little one.... so go play with your stamina gems and trinkets while having the gear to and for those that don't, being a well rounded player, like myself and MANY other tanks (the rest of the tanking world... that's funny as most tanks I've talked to and relayed the message says you must be an idiot... and surprisingly, I came to your defense and said that you seemed quite knowledgeable but just wrong on this) do the same... ciao, Bovinity... you're truly more than a waste of my time.

    And by the way, I've learned plenty from these forums... Darksend has virtually turned my game around... regardless of what he thinks on this issue as I'm sure he's not going to be a moron about it and instead of preaching "You're wrong, and that settles cause the rest say you're wrong (a total fallacy)" He'd do so in a manner that would make sense, if it's truly "me not getting it"... but I highly doubt he'd say that people with insufficient mitigation, avoidance, hit/expertise, etc should worry about stacking stamina to be the uber tank that I'm sure you try and tell yourself you are (which, who knows, you may be a great tank... looking at your gear, you certainly have all the stats you say are pointless to have to do end game content).... bah, I can't believe I actually added this part... I have wasted more time on you than you deserve... ciao... going to find someone competent to learn something from.
    Last edited by Atheia; 10-24-2009 at 04:35 PM.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  16. #56
    instead of preaching "You're wrong, and that settles cause the rest say you're wrong (a total fallacy)" He'd do so in a manner that would make sense,
    Earlier:

    Well, I have to say thanks to Bovinity to making more sense of the reasons WHY
    Wait, which is it, again? =)

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity View Post
    Earlier:



    Wait, which is it, again? =)
    It didn't take long for you to show your true colours, is all and lacking any quality for me to take seriously... )
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  18. #58
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    and I'm sure that Darksend's and kalon's blog comes up at the top :P. Kalon is the fine gentleman who is trying to spread the good word about stam for totgc. You've got the major players of the bear tanking world in this forum.
    I don't know if I'd call myself a major player. I write a lot, and I tend to write about things I've actually done. That doesn't make me an expert.

    Googling Feral druid tank doesn't bring up anything about my site until the 6th link, and even then it's not a great link; nothing direct is linked for a few pages. The amusing thing is that of the links, we have blogs that haven't been updated since feb 2008, we have thebigbearbutt (who hasn't posted about bear tanking for a billion years and was wrong even when he did), and a couple old EJ posts.

    Atheia, what I'd really love for you to do at this point is go talk to Darksend and ask him his opinion on whether or not a druid needs 'balanced' stats before stacking stamina. The reason being is because if you've read his blog at all, he is the biggest cheerleader of anyone in terms of stacking stamina for a druid. Far more than I am; I actually disagree with him that it's always the best thing no matter what. But if you're looking for someone who's informed and intelligent who is also going to back you up on having some level of base stats other than stamina? You probably should look elsewhere.

    quote one place I said to stack the other stats? (that's the misunderstanding, you're not capable of comprehending the thread or just not reading it at all)
    You didn't say 'stack'. You said 'get'. There are two ways to get more hit/expertise/dodge: either get different pieces of gear, or enchant/gem for it. Sorry if we misunderstood, and you were advocating getting downgrades in gear in order to meet hit/expertise benchmarks.

    I would really love to see these forums as well. Feral tanking forums are pretty rare from what I've seen. Are you talking about the wikispace ones? Or the druid grove ones?

    I'm also curious, Atheia - according to your armory above, you have not successfully completed anything in ToC25 at all. Not once, not even past beasts. You've only done ToC10. Now, you've said repeatedly that you've done ToC25 - was it on the above character? Same with Ulduar; you've not done anything in Ulduar 25 at all, and only done a few bosses in Ulduar 10.

    Finally:
    Or are you really, truly saying that stacking stamina is the only way to go regardless of gear?
    If you want to do a fight where you need to have 53k health to survive a common occurrence in the fight, and the only way to get that much health is to stack as much stamina as you can - then yes, we're both saying that you need to stack as much stamina as you can, and that's the only way to go if you want to have any kind of chance on the encounter.

    The silliest thing about this discussion is that if you went with the same advice I gave above - get a gladiator enchant, get the death warmed belt and footpads of silence, get a better stamina trinket - you would have enough EH to survive beasts (or should be close enough that it wouldn't matter). Whether your guild could do it or not is another issue, but you certainly could do heroic beasts on 10 man without any problem.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by felhoof View Post
    The amusing thing is that of the links, we have blogs that haven't been updated since feb 2008, we have thebigbearbutt (who hasn't posted about bear tanking for a billion years and was wrong even when he did), and a couple old EJ posts.
    He's actually posted things recently and someone I happen to enjoy reading and learning from... read recently some of your alter ego's stuff, and have to say, I'm impressed too... disappointed that felhoof and kalon are one in the same... but hey, Sybil had her good sides too.

    Atheia, what I'd really love for you to do at this point is go talk to Darksend and ask him his opinion on whether or not a druid needs 'balanced' stats before stacking stamina. The reason being is because if you've read his blog at all, he is the biggest cheerleader of anyone in terms of stacking stamina for a druid. Far more than I am; I actually disagree with him that it's always the best thing no matter what. But if you're looking for someone who's informed and intelligent who is also going to back you up on having some level of base stats other than stamina? You probably should look elsewhere.
    I don't really need anyone to "back me up" on anything. And I've read Darksends stuff and just because he's the almighty Darksend (which I say with respect as well because his advice has literally improved my game) doesn't mean I'll agree with him about stacking stamina while ignoring the other stats. I tanked even heroics in the begining without being able to generate enough threat to keep aggro... stamina wouldn't have helped me. Not real sure if I'm just typing too fast or you guys simply are ignoring that the majority of what is being said, I'm agreeing with you... just simply saying the other stats are just as important.... telling me that mitigation, avoidance, threat isn't important and only big HP... well, you may be one heckuva uber tank but your healers are the real heroes and your DPS is total fail... but alas, here we go dancing around again... 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

    You didn't say 'stack'. You said 'get'. There are two ways to get more hit/expertise/dodge: either get different pieces of gear, or enchant/gem for it. Sorry if we misunderstood, and you were advocating getting downgrades in gear in order to meet hit/expertise benchmarks.
    pretty much par for course considering this thread.. you quoted something I said based on something that other guy said... gotta read both.

    I would really love to see these forums as well. Feral tanking forums are pretty rare from what I've seen. Are you talking about the wikispace ones? Or the druid grove ones?
    several different forums through world of warcraft... you can find nay sayers and stamina thumpers (bible thumpers)... take your pick... also stuff I'm sure you'll probably only belittle because it may disagree with you and your theories... so is life.

    I'm also curious, Atheia - according to your armory above, you have not successfully completed anything in ToC25 at all. Not once, not even past beasts.
    I've no idea... I just looked as well and it shows that I've not even completed naxx 25 yet I have on several occasions. I even got a back piece out of toc25 finally (not sure how to link stuff here on the forums so you'll have to look it up yourself), Pride of Eredar. (I just went back and it only shows a portion of it)

    Same with Ulduar; you've not done anything in Ulduar 25 at all, and only done a few bosses in Ulduar 10.
    Sadly, that's true as I took a break due to RL issues... and when I got back, the guild I was in had virtually disbanded and all the new content was out... a fresh start with a real fresh new guild. So goes life yet again. But this isn't about measuring our [stamina] sizes, it's about stats... I could have only done Hogger and have enough common sense to know that high HP, although is awesome, not having sufficient amounts of mitigation, avoidance (you know the rest) could create a problem.

    The silliest thing about this discussion is that if you went with the same advice I gave above - get a gladiator enchant, get the death warmed belt and footpads of silence, get a better stamina trinket - you would have enough EH to survive beasts (or should be close enough that it wouldn't matter). Whether your guild could do it or not is another issue, but you certainly could do heroic beasts on 10 man without any problem.
    I'm trying... desperately so... I'll have them in due time
    Last edited by Atheia; 10-25-2009 at 12:46 AM.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    721
    telling me that mitigation, avoidance, threat isn't important and only big HP... well, you may be one heckuva uber tank but your healers are the real heroes and your DPS is total fail... but alas, here we go dancing around again... 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
    None of those things are important if you can't survive tanking.

    I'm one of the few people out there that will argue that you need some degree of avoidance, armor, and threat stats and that things like polar gear/pvp gear can be detrimental despite having more overall EH than other pieces - but even with that noted, the important thing here is this: the person in question did not have enough health to survive reasonably the encounters they faced.

    Bovinity and I are acknowledging that fact. You are not.

    There isn't more than one way to do those encounters; you need a certain amount of health to survive them.

    Neither one of us are advocating that stamina is the be-all,end all of tanking, though as it turns out it tends to be fairly good more of the time than almost anything else. But we are advocating that it's essential for this guy's problem, and we are saying that yes, you must be this high to ride.

    Now, if you're actually agreeing with us after all this time, great. There's just this horrible communication breakdown between you and every other poster here, and that's fine. It happens all the time.

    But if you're still saying that you could do Gormok with 45k if you have a good balance of expertise, dodge, hit and stamina, you're simply wrong or deluded.

    He's actually posted things recently and someone I happen to enjoy reading and learning from... read recently some of your alter ego's stuff, and have to say, I'm impressed too... disappointed that felhoof and kalon are one in the same... but hey, Sybil had her good sides too.
    Sadly, BBB really isn't that strong of a tank any more. He advocates things like using mangle when trying to hold aggro on multiple mobs and hasn't kept up with spec/class changes very well. Which is a shame; I grew up reading his stuff, and his bear gearing guides were great. He's now gotten to the point where he doesn't write about what is good overall, he writes about what might work for him.

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