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Thread: A druid tank needs help

  1. #81
    I apologize to the OP for having a hand in turning his thread into this, by the way. =(

    I just couldn't stand to risk that he - or anyone else - would heed the bad advice given early on.

  2. #82
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    Yeah, I apologize too.

    I'll bow out on this at this point. Hopefully the OP is doing better in HToGC and Algalon.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jibaikia View Post
    my treat is at the bother line as well ><
    However, Felhoof says:
    His threat is fine. He mentions not having any problems with threat
    That in and of itself speaks volumes... you just make stuff up out of nowhere and expect people to be too lazy to go back and read, hence my reason for responding to you... so that while you and Bovinity continue to respond and either make things up or distort what has been said, I can continue to say the same thing (my new quest now on this thread, everytime you post some moronic distortion of what I have said on the entire thread, I'm going to respond in kind with what I've been saying)....

    Now to Bovinity (starting to save time by just responding to both at once):

    Okay, here's a challenge for you, Atheia:

    Find one - one - druid tank that is not primarily gemming or enchanting for stamina that is gemming or enchanting for hit/expertise.

    Especially: find one that is doing so such that they are at or past the expertise dodge cap.

    Heck, link 3 that are not stacking stamina that have done HToGC to any extent. My clairvoyant view believes that in their cases, one of three things will be true:
    1) They are gearing for Anubarak and are minimizing health
    2) They are in their DPS gear
    3) They aren't past beasts.
    Because, as I spelled it out so painfully to you, their gear has already, for pete sake, allowed them to have the stats needed... I'm over hit cap without a single hit gem... you know how that happened? I'll tell you.... GEAR *gasp*.... my dodge is 44% buffed with only 1 gem (that's for the meta bonus... I know, it's an increase in armor and you guys think mitigation is useless but I get that 2 extra stamina points so you should be proud)... wanna know how that happened? GEAR! (you're learning)..... my expertise is a bit low and no, I won't gem or enchant for it because as of now, I'm having no problem with it as it is but would like more in the long run, who knows.... please, do me one favor... if you have a soul, don't distort this and make up stuff and grab a dictionary or something if you're still not understanding....
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  4. #84
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    People may wanna start behaving in this thread. Or I smell some Lockage.

    Tankspot Moderator
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    "Damnit!" - Jack Bauer, 24


  5. #85
    Finally... whew
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  6. #86
    Toushiro's Avatar
    Toushiro is offline 私はあなたのことをいつも考えています。
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    topic is to long for it's own good.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    I keep a few steel bars in my home.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Krenian View Post
    People may wanna start behaving in this thread. Or I smell some Lockage.
    Well, hopefully the pain is over...
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  8. #88
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    That in and of itself speaks volumes... you just make stuff up out of nowhere and expect people to be too lazy to go back and read, hence my reason for responding to you... so that while you and Bovinity continue to respond and either make things up or distort what has been said, I can continue to say the same thing (my new quest now on this thread, everytime you post some moronic distortion of what I have said on the entire thread, I'm going to respond in kind with what I've been saying)....
    Is that what he meant? Honestly, I didn't understand that at all.

    For threat, I've found more often than not that expertise isn't nearly as good a fix as a better rotation. The #1 source of problems for threat for bears is not using maul enough. The second is not using faerie fire enough.

    And Atheia: the biggest trouble I have with what you're saying is that you say that when you have 'enough' dodge, hit and expertise you can stack stamina. The trouble I personally have with this is that no where do you clarify 'enough'. The implication from your personal stats is that 30 expertise is not 'enough', and 248 hit is not 'enough'.

    So if you could answer this via concrete numbers: what is 'enough' hit, expertise, and dodge for ToC25? How about HToGC25?

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by felhoof View Post
    Is that what he meant? Honestly, I didn't understand that at all.

    For threat, I've found more often than not that expertise isn't nearly as good a fix as a better rotation. The #1 source of problems for threat for bears is not using maul enough. The second is not using faerie fire enough.
    I can't believe I'm about to ask you a question but you mentioned taking mangle out of rotation... what did you fill that hole with (please, don't make me regret this by saying I said one thing and now what I just said)

    And Atheia: the biggest trouble I have with what you're saying is that you say that when you have 'enough' dodge, hit and expertise you can stack stamina. The trouble I personally have with this is that no where do you clarify 'enough'. The implication from your personal stats is that 30 expertise is not 'enough', and 248 hit is not 'enough'.
    Hit cap is 262, Expertise cap for bears is 443 for bears (what's that come to?), dodge is nice to keep around 40-45% I'd expect (and from what druids I respect have said)

    So if you could answer this via concrete numbers: what is 'enough' hit, expertise, and dodge for ToC25? How about HToGC25?
    Having that alone would make either an easier ride and it's easy enough to get.
    I'm a bear tank and you're just jealous!

  10. #90
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    I have been avoiding this thread because I really did not want to get involved. But because of what it has degraded into I want to leave some closing thoughts.

    NEVER EVER EVER gem hit or expertise if you plan on doing any hard mode or heroic raid content. As a druid you get so much hit and expertise from gear alone that you should never gem anything but stam. As kalon has pointed out I in the past have done nothing but that. I do have several more red gems than before but only because the gear has red gems in it. I suggest getting every socket bonus that does not require a yellow gem, always have. BUT DO SO ONLY USING shifting and solid gems nothing else.

    Now atheia this may sound like I am agreeing with you but I am not. When it comes to priority you said that you will gem stam once you have enough hit and expertise. I say that take whatever hit and expertise is on your gear and be happy with it because it is already a significant amount more than the plate wearers get. If you plan to do nothing but heroic 5 mans, naxx, maly, easy mode sarth, and normal ulduar easy mode, then ready my earlier gear guide written before ulduar was released. Because content was so easy I placed much more importance on tank DPS (also this was around the time cider was promoting the deep wounds spec and how tank focus has shifted from holding threat to being a significant amount of raid DPS).

    This was actually something me and kalon used to disagree about. He said my original gear list was wrong because it placed to much value on hit and expertise. He was 100% right except that the content was so easy. For any hard mode or heroic expertise and hit gems just will not cut it.



  11. #91
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    I can't believe I'm about to ask you a question but you mentioned taking mangle out of rotation... what did you fill that hole with (please, don't make me regret this by saying I said one thing and now what I just said)
    I don't think I've ever mentioned taking mangle out of the rotation. I've mentioned dropping imp mangle in favor of other things. If I did mention that, my apologies; that wasn't my intent.

    The standard rotation for threat is mangle when it's up, FF when it's up, then lacerate or swipe depending on how long the lacerate stack has to refresh. A general good rule of thumb is that unless you need to do maximum DPS, you should not lacerate for maximum threat if your stack will likely fall off after around 45 seconds for some reason (phase change, boss ability, whatever).

    The trick to the above is that in all cases, you should be mauling. There should be no time where you are not mauling. If you berserk, if you demo roar, if you taunt - you should be mauling.

    Hit cap is 262, Expertise cap for bears is 443 for bears (what's that come to?), dodge is nice to keep around 40-45% I'd expect (and from what druids I respect have said)
    Okay. Here's an exercise for you. Use nothing but ToC gear - any ToC gear you like - and try and get to the hit and expertise cap.

    Then let us know what that gear looks like.

    The problem I'm alluding to is that unless you don't take upgrades your expertise is going to be fairly low. This is because there just isn't that much expertise on good gear out there. here's a list of all expertise leather from ToC, Ony and the like. Of these pieces two are from heroic Ulduar. 5 are headpieces and are upgrades to each other. Then there are the boots, which are great - but there are better in 25 man. And even with the helm and boots, you're only looking at 137 expertise rating total.

    The jewelry's no help either. Here's a list of all usable druid armor items with expertise.There's two necks that's not as good as the best neck, a cloak which isn't the best cloak that you can get (though that requires insanity), and...a dps trinket. Even using that bad neck and the cloak, you're up to 226 total expertise rating, well below that 443 value.

    At that point you're actually choosing items that aren't as good as you can have so that you can get expertise. You've missed out on Arbiter's Muse and Icescale Boots. That's possibly okay, but it's not great.

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