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Thread: Top Threat/Damage Rotation

  1. #1
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    Top Threat/Damage Rotation

    First off let me say that I have extensively gone over nearly every thread on these forums. The issue I am having is that most threads that give concrete evidence on threat rotations, tend to be severely outdated or have lots of posts contradicting what the thread says.

    And by said threads I am referring to:

    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...-rotation.html

    Also:

    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...simulator.html

    Here is my armory as I am sure that would help determine my rotation.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Any help at all is welcome.

  2. #2
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    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...readsheet.html Both of the ones you listed above are outdated for maximum threat use Glyph of Devastate and just Devastate when ever Shield Slam is on cooldown.

  3. #3
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    Mostly it's Cooldowns (Shockwave/Conc Blow, Heroic Throw if you don't need to pick anything up) > Shield Slam > Devastate > Revenge/TC

    But as krc said, check the spreadsheet (yay, I'm beginning to become famous!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by krc View Post
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...readsheet.html Both of the ones you listed above are outdated for maximum threat use Glyph of Devastate and just Devastate when ever Shield Slam is on cooldown.
    This post has wrong information. The best possible rotation is Shield Slam + brainless Devastate spam, for a more detailed calculation see my post below.


    My own calculations state otherwise.

    I just logged in after a 4 months break, and saw Devastate changed. I reprogrammed my old special ability simulator with the new values and filled in my stats. These are the results:

    Stats
    :
    Attack Power: 3800;Block Value 1400:Critical Strike 7%;Expertise 8.5 %;
    Weapon:
    Speed 1.6; DPS 188.1; (Sorthalis)
    Talents/Debuffs/Glyphs:
    Improved Revenge, Impale, Mongoose (average over time),Glyph of Devastate, Mange/Trauma, CoR/Faerie Fire

    Results:
    Shield Slam 3397
    Revenge /w S&B proc possibility 2695
    Devastate /w S&B proc possibility 2490
    Revenge 2312
    Heroic Throw 2269
    Shockwave 2255
    Concussion Blow 2166
    Devastate 2118
    Rend above 75% 1790
    Thunder Clap 1574
    Rend 1326

    Note that these threat values are calculated off unbuffed stats. Concussion Blow and Shockwave scale better than Devastate and thus will out-scale Devastate further in a raid-buffed scenario.

    The conclusion is that the ideal cycle has not changed much. Now, you want to use your long CDs (HT,SW,CB) before your Shield Slams comes off the cooldown instead of just queuing them after Shield Slam as soon as they come off the cooldown.

    The best threat cycle changes from:
    Priority cycle pre Devastate buff:
    1. Shield Slam
    2. Revenge
    3.1 Heroic Throw 3.2 Shockwave 3.3 Concussion Blow 3.4 Devastate
    4. Thunder Clap

    to:
    Priority cycle post Devastate buff:
    1. Shield Slam
    2. Revenge
    3. Devastate
    4.1 Heroic Throw 4.2 Shockwave 4.3 Concussion Blow

    You read this priority cycle like this: If you get a S&B proc you just start the cycle over again and do the highest threat move; so if Revenge is on CD use Devastate.
    Your second move after you shield slamed (it does not matter if was a S&B proc or not) should be a threat move off number four (4.1 Heroic Throw 4.2 Shockwave 4.3 Concussion Blow); if these are on cooldown, just start the cycle again and do the highest threat move.

    An example:
    SS->Revenge->S&B SS-->Devastate-->Heroic Throw->
    SS->Revenge->Devastate->Shockwave->
    SS->Revenge->Devastate->Concussion Blow->
    SS->Rev->S&B SS->Dev->S&B SS->Rev->Dev->Dev
    SS->....
    Last edited by Yomo; 10-24-2009 at 03:18 PM.

  5. #5
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    Yomo,I pulled your stats off the armory and using Wartotem's spreadsheet unbuffed I found that the Results were:
    SS:4260.9
    Devastate:3402.65
    Revenge:2547
    Shockwave:2249.5
    Concussion Blow:2110.57

    Not to mention that you are going to have to be completely buffed for Shockwave to even stand a chance it surpassing Devastate in a raid situation and that is not even including the chances you get Sword and Board from Devastate. The Sunder Armor debuff is also crucial to be kept on bosses.

    This shows that either you or Wartotem's spreadsheet is wrong. Are you sure you are including Glyph of Devastate and the T8 set bonus in your simulator, they both increase Devastate's threat value by a large amount, Without those though Devastate still out threats Revenge by a couple hundred TPS though.

  6. #6
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    Devastate scales better than Revenge as well, which matter a lot with raid buffs.
    I've just entered my Warrior's current stats in the spreadsheet and fully raidbuffed I got:
    4700 AP, 1761 block value, 14,3% effective crit, 20 expertise
    Using ToC sword (1.5 speed, 163 DPS)
    Using same talents/Glyphs as you, except I have Deep Wounds & Blade Ward enchant.

    TPS & DPS numbers:
    Shield Slam: 5883 - 2350
    Revenge: 3843 - 1777
    Devastate: 4403 - 1427
    Conc. Blow: 4169 - 2011
    Shockwave: 4389 - 2117
    Heroic Throw: 4467 - 1436

    So overall Devastate just beats cooldowns, but at the cost of a lot of DPS. Revenge for me is just a DPS tool if I can afford the threat, but I usually do not spec for that. I didn't include S&B procs btw.

    I think the biggest difference here is Deep Wounds, which favors Dev/SS more cause of talents. But as I've seen up to 800 TPS increases from just speccing this talent, I do not consider any discussion about threat valid if you don't spec Deep Wounds. It blows every other possible threat talent out of the water (except maybe that 1 point in Devastate).

    Edit: Damn you krc, if I wasn't running bloody errands all the time ...
    Last edited by Airowird; 10-24-2009 at 10:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  7. #7
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    Please post your Devastate calculation maths, so we can see what the truth is.

  8. #8
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    My Firefox just crashed with my nearly finished post. So I quickly explain my math.

    Devastate is calculated:
    1. 1010 +
    2. Normalized Weapon damage
    3. Weapon damage
    4. 5 % ap in threat + 305 innate (static, does not scale with gear)

    With my stats this is:
    1. 1010
    2. 188.1 * 1.6
    3. (3800/14) * 2.4
    4. 3800 * 0.1 + 610 (Glyph of Devastate)
    5. Result = 1962.39 + 380 + 610

    If you add my averaged out crit, expertise (Critical Strike 7%;Expertise 8.5 %;)you are at:
    990 + (1962.39 * 1.07*1.15) (8.5 parry + 6.5 dodge) = 2414.72 + 990

    Then add Talents; 15 % sword and board crit (other talents are the same for Revenge or other abilities (10% modifier))
    990+ (2414.72 * 1.15) = 2776.93 + 990 = 3766.93


    Now for Revenge:
    1. AP * 0.207 * imp Revenge
    2. 1454 to 1776 or 1615 average * imp Revenge

    With my stats:
    1. 3800*0.207*1.2
    2. 1615 * 1.2
    3. Result: 2881.92

    Add crit and expertise:
    2881.92*1.15*1.07 = 3545.32

    Now for Shockwave:
    1. AP * 0.75
    2. 3800 * 0.75 = 2850

    No dodge and parry plus crit:
    2850 * 1.205*1.07 = 3674.65

    Devastate = 3766.93
    Shockwave = 3674.65
    Revenge = 3545.32


    I found my mistake in the new static innate threat of 305. So yes you are right Shield Slam and just brainlessly smash Devastate (why have it to be that easy now :( ?).
    Last edited by Yomo; 10-24-2009 at 03:16 PM.

  9. #9
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    I just read they ninja buffed Devastate innate threat. Updated my posts.

  10. #10
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    Shockwave can be better than devestate depending on your hit rating, expertise rating and wether you have 2pc t8 and/or 2 pc t9. You really cant say 1 is better than the other any more, its extremely gear dependent.

    Also improved revenge is pretty useless now. Its only good for very low rage situations or if you need the stun.

  11. #11
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    Improved Revenge is mostly a DPS tool, as you only use it if you can afford the loss in threat compared to Devastate and the stun on your target reducing it's avoidances to 0%. And if the target is stun immune it's usually a raid boss, where you don't care about the Rage anyway

    Edit: @Yomo: Cooldowns are still pretty good as they provide substantially more DPS for only a small threat loss.
    Last edited by Airowird; 10-25-2009 at 12:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomo View Post
    Then add Talents; 15 % sword and board crit (other talents are the same for Revenge or other abilities (10% modifier))
    990+ (2414.72 * 1.15) = 2776.93 + 990 = 3766.93
    It's worth noting that with most prot builds, impale is included as well, which will add damage to crits for both devastate and revenge, but given that devastate will have a higher base crit chance (even before any set bonuses), this will favor devastate further.

    Also, with deep wounds, the higher crit chance for devastate will result in more overall damage/threat being added to the calculations.

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