Pulverize

[Uselessllama]

So, I'm sure I'm not the only druid who's really enjoying this new patch. I feel like I'm not using Pulverize as much as I was intended to, yet I still easily pull 20k+ tps in raids. Has anyone done any work with Pulverize to see how effective it is, and it's proper use?

If it matters, my rotation has been, on single target...

FF x3 asap
Mangle
Lacerate x3 asap
Maul with rage to fill


Edit: Did some more searching. I've seen at least one other who agrees that the ticks from Lacerate, in addition to proc'ing my Mangle insanely often, makes Pulverize ... useless?

[uglie]

I personally like the 9% crit bonus that pulverize gives you if you pulverize with 3 stacks of lacerate up. the only thing is it consumes the lacerate stacks so after pulverize i put those stacks back up for the refresh of mangle procs and only pulverizing to keep the 9% crit buff.
So my opener would be charge, FF, mangle, maul lacerate to 3 stacks, pulverize, lacerate x3 all while keeping mangle and maul on cd of course.

[felhoof]

Lacerate ticks aren't that special. They're special because they allow you to remangle. Pulverize hits hard anyway, and you'll want to lacerate when not mangling/swiping because lacerate is awesome.

There's no reason not to pulverize. It is the second-highest threat move behind mangle and adds 9% crit to everything. It's great. And you should get used to it, because while you have absurdly high crit rates now that's not going to be the case at 85.

[BeautiPhil]

Pulverize does hit quite hard, especially with a full stack of Lacerate. Seems to me we have the choice of spiking threat with a 3x Pulv and re-satcking Lacerate, or waiting for Mangle to Proc and generate threat that way.

[felhoof]

You don't really need to 'choose'.

Lacerate only procs every 3 seconds. So long as you wait to pulverize until after a lacerate proc and then reapply lacerate immediately, you only lose about 1.5 seconds of lacerate proc chances per 18 seconds. This is not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. And again, in 18 seconds you'll be lacerating more than 3 times regardless, because lacerate is good now.

The only question is whether simply pulverizing every time without lacerate stacks is worth it, and it's not; mangling and having lacerate up some of the time is better due to the berserk proc and having more SD procs and getting 9% crit. It isn't as big a deal at 80 as it is 85 due to crit rates, but it still is good.

There's really no choice to be made. One is better than the other. The only reason to pulverize all the time is if you're lazy and want to be suboptimal.

[proudmoore]

...and getting 9% crit. It isn't as big a deal at 80 as it is 85 due to crit rates, but it still is good.

Sorry, but would you mind clarifying this? I don't appreciate the logic by which the value of crit is dependant upon the current crit rate - surely, in a simplified form,

threat = TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate).

Adjusting critrate to critrate + 0.09 yields the same absolute increase regardless of the value of critrate - it's a linear function. I'm assuming you're not running into the crit cap right now - is this my error? Or am I missing an important complication?

[Airowird]

Sorry, but would you mind clarifying this? I don't appreciate the logic by which the value of crit is dependant upon the current crit rate - surely, in a simplified form,

threat = TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate).

Adjusting critrate to critrate + 0.09 yields the same absolute increase regardless of the value of critrate - it's a linear function. I'm assuming you're not running into the crit cap right now - is this my error? Or am I missing an important complication?

Try relative gain:

Threat gain = [TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate + .09)] / [TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate)]
Scratch what you can and you end up with 0.09 / (1 + critrate) as a relative gain, meaning the more crit you have, the less meaning ful the 9% is

[uglie]

Try relative gain:

Threat gain = [TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate + .09)] / [TPS(critrate = 0) * (1 + critrate)]
Scratch what you can and you end up with 0.09 / (1 + critrate) as a relative gain, meaning the more crit you have, the less meaning ful the 9% is

So if I understand this right, crit: threat ratio is on DRs?

[felhoof]

It doesn't matter about relative or absolute gain; the important thing is not the effect on threat, but its effect on uptime of savage defense. That more crit rate past a certain point doesn't really gain you much in terms of probability is also a factor, but the big one is simply the uptime.

[proudmoore]

Aha, Savage Defence would be the bit I was missing. Thank you for the clarification.

[geezevil]

I think Pulverize is good to have in ur rotation personaly i try to hit it every 20secs after a mangle proc, and i stick to a basic rotation or prioritys like when mangle is on cd and hasnt prced i hit swipe instead.
so my rotations look like on raid bosses

FFF Mangle Lacerate x3 till mangle procs then pulverize maul lacerate x3 and for next 20 secs i spam lacerate x3 and maul and hit mangle every proc and when off cd!and if mangle is stll on cd without a proc happening i use swipe instead and after 17secs the next time mangle procs i hit pulverize and carry on the same as b4 for about 17secs with the spamming, so this way u only hit pulverize once every 17-20secs to keep teh 9%crit buff up all the time without messing up ur rotation procs (looking forward to someone making a addon that tells me when pulverize has ran out so i dont need to count to 17 or squint at the top right buffs)
BTW if u got the T10 set 4 u can hit enrage every cd to increase ur phsycal damage by 10% with out worrying about taking more damage urself cus 4set T10 gives u 12% less damage instead of the increase damage when using enrage on urself without the 4 set.

[Liquidska]

You probably want to spec in to Feral Aggression if you are spamming 3 faerie fires right at the start. It really doesn't hit like it used to. Throwing one up on your pull and then going straight to mangles will net you a lot more TPS.

But on topic there is no reason not to Pulverize. The individual tic's of lacerate are really only good for the Proc, its the initial attack that is the money maker now. Pulverizing and getting a 9% crit bonus for it is fantastic. Since lacerates attack hits so hard, your stack should be back fairly quick anyways.