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Thread: Tanking Officer needs HELP

  1. #21
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    Protection Warrior

    Well i might have read your post wrong but ill put in a little bit of feedback on the warrior tank...cider could probaly add on...avoidance is a big thing with us...i like to have the high HP pool...but i still try to keep my dodge / parry / block all around 25%, i also found specing into talents out of the protection tree such as cruelty, improved heroic strike and a few other abilitys realy helped for threat generation. for a warr tank, i found the folowing glyphs to be useful

    -Glyph of blocking

    -Glyph of Devistate

    those are 2 main ones almost any warr should have...you can also glyph for glyph of sheild wall and last stand wich will then greately reduce cooldown timers for those 2 abilities ...most of this probaly isnt relivant to what your looking for but i figured i would throw it out, but yes most warriors do stack stmina over parry, i sorta do that myself, but in some way i helped,

  2. #22
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    What you need to do then is watch the Protection Warrior video, the Druid tanking rotation video, etc. Then check out the guides for each.

    The main things you are probably interested in are things like talents and rotations.

    Gearing shouldn't be much of a concern if what you say you need is true. The tanking classes tend to gear with the same philosophy in mind, regardless of class. Individual players have different ideas about how to gear, but that is more about personal choice than class needs. For example, there is no reason that class X should stack avoidance while class Y stacks stamina. There might be more benefit to class X stacking avoidance than if Y tries, but things like stamina versus avoidance are more of a philosophy in general rather than a class mechanics thing.

    Start with the guides in this forum and its subforums:
    TankSpot's Critical Guides & Articles Library - TankSpot

    Protection Warrior video:
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f64/5...ior-guide.html

    Druid Rotation video:
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f64/5...ion-guide.html

    I don't know the DK guides as well, so I can't comment on those.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by abqmedic77 View Post
    Once again, I appreciate the enthusiastic response and folks telling my that my expectations of my tanks are unrealistic. The point of my post was to seek help in OTHER classes of tanks. I know very little about druid, warrior and DK tanking as I have no experience in playing other classes. Let me be more specific so that people may have a better understanding of my intent.
    First of all, let me state one thing. Every tank can tank everything. Some tanks have an edge in some fights, but for just about all fights out there, there isn't a huge difference between the tanks.
    So if a tank fails at tanking, don't blame the class first, look for other explanations.
    1. I know that Warrior don't have a way to consistently reach 102.4% total avoidance so they stack stam to become closer to an EH tank than an avoidance/mit tank.
    Okay, you claim to be the tanking officer for your guild. That means you must start getting your terminology right. No tank in the game can attain complete avoidance at the moment. What you are talking about is being block capped - that is, blocking or avoiding every swing mobs take at you.
    While warriors generally don't go for it, they should block about the same amount of damage that a paladin would block, they have critical block which doubles their block value sometimes and they have a cooldown which makes them block capped and doubles their block value as well. Last time I checked, the total damage blocked was similar.
    Warriors can become block capped, but it comes at a hefty cost for them, and generally isn't worth it.
    The second tank of the guild I am in is a warrior, he and I are extremely close when it comes to gear level. We have comparable health, armor and avoidance. (I'm a paladin.)
    Claiming a warrior is more of an EH tank then a paladin is silly - the simple fact that we paladins block every blow doesn't make us more or less of an avoidance tank, and the big tank-killer hits are usually not blockable anyway, so both need a similar amount of EH to survive.

    2. I know that Druids are completely aviodance tanks (only mitigating thru armor) so they either don't get hit or eat 20k to the face on some fights.
    When a bear deals a melee critical strike, they receive a damage shield. This is comparable to a block mechanic.
    3. I know that DK's wear plate, they tank and they don't have a shield.
    Each DK has specific strengths and weaknesses apart from those. I don't know enough about DK's to say much more.
    And that esentially sums up my knowledge of other tanks abilities and such. Until now I have left it to the Class Leaders to oversee their people. Out guild is now big enough and we have enough tanks that we need some general oversight and direction. How can I fairly do this without understanding the mechanics of their gameplay?
    You can't. Read up here and on EJ to get a better understanding of each of the tanks mechanics. You don't have to be an expert, but a basic understanding helps a lot.
    I am trying to peer into the future for my guild so that as DPS/TPS rises our tanks will be able to keep up.
    From personal experience, the huge threat leads that tanks should be used to from Ulduar will become less huge. When tanking for similarly geared dps, you shouldn't run into any huge threat issues, though.
    At some point every tank reaches a level where they are esentially maxed out on the survival aspect of their class. (in a general tanking sense not for specific fights) At this point, you maintain your survivability and start moving to deepening your health pool and maximizing threat generation.
    This is, quite frankly, wrong. As you progress through your content, the survival abilities needed for the encounter will rise. A good example would be Gormok the Impaler on 25man heroic mode. He hits so damn hard that you want as much avoidance and effective health as you can get - there is no realistic max here.
    I have no clue why you would split "survival" and "deepening your health pool" into two different things, they are exactly the same thing.
    Maximizing threat generation is secondary to survival by a long shot. If you cannot survive an encounter, the encounter will fail. If you don't do enough threat to successfully complete an encounter, you need to take a close look at your tanking abilities and the dps spread in your raid.
    As an example, in most fights, I only have two to four people who are in danger of pulling aggro off of me. Asking those people to hold back a bit doesn't break the encounter, and even that is rarely needed, since those same people have threat-dump abilities that they can use, and there are paladins available to throw some salvation around. In a worst case scenario, I'd need a taunt.
    Perhaps I am looking at it from a too-paladin-centered thought process but I figured that the same general principals would apply across classes.
    The same general processes do apply across all tank classes. They all need enough health to survive the biggest hits the boss has, a healthy buffer on top of that and as much mitigation and avoidance as they can after that.

    Here are the advantages the tanks have as far as I know.

    Paladin: Slight edge against undead mobs, good AoE threat. Gives a healing buff to the raid, a good armor buff, 3% critical strike chance and puts an attack power debuff on the boss. These buffs are not unique to protection paladins. Threat not affected by armor as much. Judgements cause raid-wide mana and health regeneration.

    Warrior: Highly mobile, good amount of cooldowns, highly fear-resistant, lots of interrupts and stuns. Best physical damage debuff in the game. Has a good health boost for the raid. AoE is less then a paladin's, though it comes in bursts instead of dot form, which has it's advantages.

    Druid: Can shift forms to perform other tasks, though the only other task they'd be decent at is cat dps. Shapeshifting offers certain immunities. Leader of the pack is a hefty dps boost to melee and hunters. Should have a higher health pool then other tanks, has some of the warriors mobility, though not to the same extent. No clue about AoE threat.

    Death Knight: Some DK's have the best AoE threat in the game. The threat of some DKs is less affected by armor. Death grip can be excessively usefull in some situations. They have some advantages versus magic damage. They have considerable self healing abilities. DKs are the only tank class who have a resource system that is not reliant on damage taken, making them best able to stay second on threat.

    This list is naturally incomplete, since I don't have the time to type out every detail, don't know every detail and think that I've touched on the most important things.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by abqmedic77 View Post
    2. I know that Druids are completely aviodance tanks (only mitigating thru armor) so they either don't get hit or eat 20k to the face on some fights.
    Druid tanking is largely linked to Armor, Hitpoints, Cool Downs and Savage Defense

    Stat comparison:

    I am going to compare to you, we are about the same level of gear, and everything I am wearing cept for my Staff is vendor sold. I tank the same level of content you seem to. I have also tanked parts of ToC25, as well as Ony 25 even tho I didn't complete either raid (again for comparison)

    You have 25k Armor Unbuffed, I have 28k.
    You have 50%~ avoidance unbuffed, I have 40.
    You have 30k hp unbuffed, I have 35k

    The difference here is I scale drastically better with raid buffed, esp buffs which effect my agility and stamina due to my talent / form modifiers. I can only guess what you buff out to, but raid buffed I can hit anywhere from 45k(Minimum) to 52k or so.

    My Dodge increases from 40% to average 50%+ when you factor in my Idol and Staff Enchant procs, and my armor has gone up as high as 32.8k or so.

    So you retain a slight avoidance lead on me, but I am more likely to flat out take less damage per hit, in addition to my ability to flat out take more of those kind of hits.

    Your block is superior in my opinion due to how it works to my Savage Defense ability. However, against a single named boss, they likely wash out. Savage Defense works off my crit chance which unbuffed is over 39% chance to trigger (Keep in mind Agi buffs such as my Idol and Staff will push this up to mid 40s) for 25% of my attack power. 6000 AP raid buffed is easy to obtain as a bear, so I have a roughly 40% chance per attack of blocking the next attack for a value of 1500.

    Threat:

    With the gear I have I also max out the dodge value due to my expertise score of 27 and I max out the physical hit score with 10.95%. This is largely due to the fact that leather is often heavy with those two stats. I am not aware of how plate is itemized for your raiding level for comparison. I am attempting to simply show that it is fairly easy for a bear to max out those two stats.

    Threat for bears is fairly easy (some would say fairly boring) Swipe builds threat AE style amazingly well, and it's spammable and can move with me. It hits unlimited targets.

    I have 2 ways of 'taunting' One is Growl, which is on a 8 second cooldown, and the other is Challenging Roar (which is a AE Fixate) this is in comparison to your own Hand of Reckoning and Righteous Defense. Roar however, unlike your R-Defense, is a 2.5 minute cooldown when it's Glyphed.

    Cooldowns:


    I have basically 3 cooldowns:

    Barkskin: 20% less damage (including magic) for 12 seconds, can use while stunned - 1 minute cooldown

    Survival Instincts - Bear version of Last Stand, 3 minute cooldown. Gives 30% more hitpoints based for 20 seconds. Glyphed increases this to increase hitpoints by 45% for 20 seconds.

    Frenzied Regeneration, 3 minute cooldown, converts 10 rage into health for 10 seconds. During this time it can convert an entire rage bar into 30% of my total health. Glyphed this also increases all healing I receive by 20%

    Basically Bear cooldowns reduce less damage, but can be used more (or just as) often. This has upsides and downsides.

    I hope this helped some.

    Btw, you do not have any points in Vindication. That would lower your melee damage intake by upwards of 15%. Bears can reach this with Demo Roar and 5 points in Feral Aggression.

  5. #25
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    Thank you all very, very much for everyone's input. Its tough to step from being a read-only kind of guy to actually having the courage to post something in a large forum with many readers.

    I'm sorry if I used the incorrect terminology or said anything inappropriately. Thank you for not completely flaming me to the ground. I will take the tiem to read through all the suggested posts and do my best to be a good contributor in the future.
    Creosmalkor, Paladin, US-Aegwynn

  6. #26
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    For a warrior:

    I have about the same stats as you do, and am on similar level as well.
    While you gain a lot of block chance from talents such as Holy Block and Redoubt, Warriors gain more black VALUE from Critical Block (60% chance to double block) and Shield Block ability (+100% block chance & value, stacks with Crit blocks). Both Shield block rating and value are not as useful to us, because of Shield Block ability as well as the amount of damage bosses do.

    Our threat mainly consists of keeping Shockwave and Concussion Blow on cooldown, then Shield Slam, then Revenge (if talented), then Devastate, which should be glyphed.
    Our most important threat stats are Expertise > Hit > Strength.

    We have 2 major cooldowns, being ...
    Last Stand: 30% extra HP, 3 min CD, glyph brings it to 2 min
    Shield Wall: 60% dmg reduction, 5 min CD. talent takes off 1 min, glyph takes off 2 min, but reduces to 40% dmg reduction
    We also have Enraged Regeneration, which heals 30% of our total HP, but prevents us getting Enrage (=+10% dmg done) and the glyph only adds more personal healing, not healing received.

    If your Warriors are having trouble with threat, make sure they're Deep Wounds specced (15/3/51 +2). It is far more efficient to spec DW and gem/gear completely for mitigation than it is to spec mitigation and then try to maintain threat with expertise/hit gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
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  7. #27
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    Plenty of people ready to pick apart what you said, but I can try some to give you a little better idea about the ins and outs of the other tank classes, I'll try to keep it brief and general.

    First, the following holds true of all 4 classes (6 tanking class/specs):
    1. All tanks use armor (physical mitigation), health (stam stacking isn't exclusive to anyone, every tank does it some, and a majority seems to do it almost exclusively), and avoidance (every tank has it in spades as you get geared, it comes on every piece), to reduce their damage intake and survive better as a tank.
    2. Every tank has CD's to manage on top of their passive stats. This arsenal *always* includes at least one relatively short (2-3 minutes talented and/or glyphed) cooldown that reduces all incoming damage by a decent amount (20-50%) for 12+ sec.
    3. For all intents and purposes, while they all go about it differently, all tanks function the same in the end, they just vary slightly in which tools play the biggest roles.
    Here are some more specific details for each of the classes:
    • Paladins = you know them best it seems. They're characterized with high block chances (Holy Shield is the big winner there). They rely on Str/Spellpower/Block Value for threat, get a nice chunk of threat from reflective damage (Holy Shield), and rely a fair amount on healing to get mana back (though this is less so with Divine Plea having a high maintained uptime, now).
    • Warriors = like Pallies, they use a shield, so they use all the same passive stats. However, where Pallies block often, Warriors block for much larger values typically (they have a talent that lets their shield blocks 'crit' for double the block value, and have a Shield Block move on 45 sec CD/10 sec duration that makes the block everything they don't avoid while doubling block value). Warriors rely on more on Str/AP/Block Value/Crit for threat, get a big chunk of threat from avoidance/block (triggering Revenge) and have their own reflective damage dealt whenever they block or get hit (but not when they avoid). Warriors rely on taking hits or avoiding them, along with dealing damage, to generate rage, so the only thing that won't generate rage is being missed.
    • Druids = contrary to what you might think, Bears are not "avoidance only" tanks, and they have a sort of block all their own. They cannot parry, only dodge, but they have considerably higher dodge chances than the other classes. Their 'shield block' is based on their crit chance and AP. Every time they crit with any of their offensive abilities they create a bubble on themselves for a % of their AP. that bubble isn't spent until they actually get hit, and it can stack. They do not require defense to be uncrittable, this is obtained through talents. They also *can* sport the highest health, and higher end armor than the other tanks. They rely on AP/Crit and other DPS stats for threat, and like Warriors, get rage from dealing damage, taking hits, and avoiding, but also from causing critical hits. Bears have Thorns for reflective damage, but that can be given to all tanks. Bears actually are designed to use leather dps gear, so they rely on multipliers from their spec and Bear form to buff their health, armor, and avoidance to tank-like values.
    • Death Knights = this is the most diverse and hard to generalize about as each spec will handle things slightly differently and use very different moves. That said, DK's are the only tank without a block mechanism, but their tanking 'stance' (Frost Presence) multiplies their armor to be slightly higher than a Warrior/Paladin with a shield. DK's can Dodge and Parry, and have the potential to sport more avoidance than the other tanks with less effort. DK's rely on Str for threat and get a significant chunk of threat from avoidance (Rune Strike is a special high threat ability that procs off of Dodge/Parry). Death Knights, depending on spec, have the most diverse tools to handle spell damage.
    Just so you understand, otherwise, all 6 class/specs are fully capable of tanking everything in the game to date, and none of them fall behind the others noticeably. Each has its personal strengths and weaknesses, but at the moment, the strengths/weaknesses of the player tends to outweigh the strengths/weaknesses of the classes.


    And just because I'm a glutton. "Unhittable" is our jargon for being able to miss/dodge/parry/block every swing that comes at you. For the most part that is not important in the current game (it used to be a tool to avoid crushing blows) with the rare exception of special procs that are only applied on normal hits (such as the Anub fight). Warriors and Paladins are the only ones who can reasonably hit this point (102.4% miss+dodge+parry+block) because of shield block. Paladins can sit there thanks to Holy Shield, and Warriors can get there for about 25% of the time if they use Shield Block on CD, without having specially stacked any stats. It is not a point most tanks actually gear for, but it is obtainable for Warriors and Paladins and has its place. It will not make Warriors or Paladins supremely more durable than the other tanks though, it only helps to avoid certain undesirable encounter-based conditions.

    If you want more than that, I've been working on some posts that have more depth and specifics I can't point you to, and this site is replete with intelligent guides and insight into every class.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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  8. #28
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    I hate to pile on, but I just have to reiterate what some people have said/implied: If you're the most experienced/best educated tanking specialist in your guild, you might want to let go of some of the assumptions you're using in your requirements. Let's go piece by piece:

    "You should meet or exceed all caps: D-Cap(540), Block Cap(102.4%), Expertise Cap (26), Hit Cap(263)"

    This is a point we harp on ad-nauseam because it's one of the most consistently misunderstood concepts. There is no d-cap. Say it with me. Terminology MATTERS. People do not always inherently understand what you mean, especially when they've been taught wrong before. Defense minimum, uncrittable, whatever you want to call it, just please not the D cap.

    26 is not the expertise Cap. It's the dodge cap, often called the soft-cap. You continue to be parried at 26 expertise, which is why we're not going to call it a cap because a cap implies that a stat has no more value. this couldn't be further from the truth in this case. The value of expertise actually goes up after 26. Expertise is a lovable stat for all tanks now, more lovable for some than others, but still valuable.

    Block is a cap, but is really irrelevant with the notable exception of Anub'arak add tanking. That's a gimmick mechanic. Don't consider it part of your base requirements.

    Hit is a cap, but an impossible one to reach in TOC gear. According to your requirements, I'd fail your endgame tanking requirement despite the fact that I'm in full 245 gear because I'm nowhere near the hitcap.

    "At which point you should gem/enchant for stam and str/bv in order to maximize threat gen and overall survivability aiming for 2900 bv which seems to be the "golden zone" for survivability and threat gen."

    You've given conflicting advice here!! You can't gem for multiple stats at once without a way of determining a preference. I reccomend you have your tanks enchant/spec/gear towards threat until their threat stops being an issue, and then go stamina heavy. Block value is so rarely worth it as a stacking stat. If you are really judging your tanks based on their block value, I seriously question if you are qualified to be tanking officer.

    I don't really mean to be harsh but the reality is you've made some invalid assumption... and I think the first one is that you know the fundamental requirements of Paladin tanking. It might be time to go back to the drawing board and learn the basics from the ground up. Hit up maintankadin again and read through all the stickied guides. You're not going to find the term "defense cap" in there anywhere, and you sure aren't going to find anything about stacking block cap.

    Use your available information to your advantage.

  9. #29
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    Issues with calling it the defense "cap" are not new, fortunately neither are the appropriate appendages to that: hard and soft.

    Hard cap means after that value adding more will offer no value at all (i.e. 17% spell hit for a caster).

    Soft cap means after that point the stat gives you less value (i.e. defense cap, after 540 it stops reducing your chance to be crit and only gives you avoidance/block chance).
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killmelater View Post
    Well i might have read your post wrong but ill put in a little bit of feedback on the warrior tank...cider could probaly add on...avoidance is a big thing with us...i like to have the high HP pool...but i still try to keep my dodge / parry / block all around 25%, i also found specing into talents out of the protection tree such as cruelty, improved heroic strike and a few other abilitys realy helped for threat generation.
    I swear people are starting to find threads I post in and say stuff like this to try and troll me and invoke nerd rage in me... and its working.

    AVOIDANCE IS NOT A BIG THING FOR WARRIORS !#$!#%!%!#$!#$!$. At least its not something you stack for or gear for. It is sad but true but with the exception of Anub'Arak where you should get a warrior with an unhittable/BV set, warriors need to stack EHP. We have the smallest health pools atm so we have to make up for it by stacking stam/armor. We have enough raw mitigation from gear that it doesn't matter to stack for it.

    /broken record.

    Also how can you list things to spec out of without mentioning deep wounds/impale, the biggest threat talents warriors have and that every warrior should pick up unless tanking H-Anub'Arak adds. Also cruelty is pretty lack luster compared to those.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  11. #31
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    My best advice to you is to lurk for awhile and just read everything. If you're looking for a place to start, read the stickied class guides on the wow forums first to get a basic understanding of the mechanics and talents, and then read the class guides here as well. compare what the authors are saying for consistency, and analyze what they're saying. that's a good place to start. Then, once you've got a solid handle on basic mechanics and talents, start lurking the forums and read what people are asking about their class. absorb the answers people are giving and compare it to what you already know.

    As you go about your business, learn the following for each class:

    -common "required" talents and spec variations
    -class rotations for single target and aoe
    -cooldowns available for spike damage
    -gear/stat preferences (DK's have no use for block, but gain 25% parry from strength, for example. Druids are crit-immune from talents but Defense is still useful to them).
    -learn how their high-threat abilities function

    the last point requires some explanation: each class has some sort of gimmicky ability that guides their decisions as players. For example: Warriors rely on Heroic Strike as a rage dump and as a high-threat ability. Heroic Strike deals weapon damage, which tends to favor slow weapons. However, since Heroic Strike adds a flat damage increase and threat modifier, warriors prefer fast weapons to slow weapons, because overtime the flat bonus will win out with more strikes. DK's, on the other hand, rely on avoidance to proc Runestrike, which replaces a MH white attack. since this is costs Runic Power, it generally means that DK's need to keep an RP reserve below which they don't use Death Coil or Frost Strike so they don't lose an opportunity to Runestrike if they dodge or parry. This, of course, will be more or less true depending on glyphs and talents, because DK's have various tools to increase RP generation and decrease RP costs.

    have at it man. you've got alot of reading ahead of you.

  12. #32
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    Perhaps you should read up on Paladins too, OP.

    Your view of reaching the 102.4% avoidance cap as any class (yes, even a Paladin) is wrong. It is entirely useless for any tank that isn't tanking H Anub adds.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyd View Post
    For example: Warriors rely on Heroic Strike as a rage dump and as a high-threat ability. Heroic Strike deals weapon damage, which tends to favor slow weapons. However, since Heroic Strike adds a flat damage increase and threat modifier, warriors prefer fast weapons to slow weapons, because overtime the flat bonus will win out with more strikes.
    Actually HS threat is normalized and is based more off of the dps of the weapon iirc, the speed doesn't really matter. However, devestate is arguably better with a slower weapon since they tend to have more high end.

    Having said that weapon speed is one of the last things a warrior looks at when chosing a tank weapon. Stats are far more important. Luckily as ivalue and stats have increased so has the dps/tps of your typical tanking weapon so its not really something tanks have to think about.
    Last edited by Aggathon; 10-19-2009 at 02:04 PM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  14. #34
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    HS threat is not normalized, never has been.
    The reason weapon speed matters so little is because Deep Wounds favors slow weapons, balancing out threat somewhat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
    Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
    Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides

  15. #35
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    Your question is very similar to an earlier post. Between this post and the one I linked, we can start there.

  16. #36
    I have sat and thought about how the hell a druid tank manages to survive when they have a shot at eating full hits all the time. The concept of a full avoidance/EHP tank escapes me as all the Paladins in my guild stay well above the block cap with Holy Shield up. (99% uptime)
    Because we have disgusting amounts of HP and Armor, and Savage Defense is - for all intents and purposes on most bosses - pretty analogous to block.

    Besides, EH is where it's at anyway. Block cap? Aside from Anub adds, who cares, eh?

    Also, for the fellow saying Savage Defense stacks...pretty sure it doesn't, that'd open up all kinds of insanity.

    Anyway, others have said it, but I'll repeat it...it's a shame, it's kinda boring, but by and large gearing to tank = maximizing your EH, with a bias toward stamina. There's really no attainable point right now where you say, "Eh, I really have too much HP! Curses!"
    Last edited by Bovinity; 10-19-2009 at 06:52 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by abqmedic77 View Post
    No, that's okay, I can look around, I just didn't know if there was some sort of holy grail for the other classes that kinda put it all together in one place.
    The holy grail can be boiled down to Tankspot and Elitist Jerks, but WoWhead and Blizzard's official WoW forums have some stickied threads worth reading too. Don't know much about the other classes, but here's the DK stuff you seem to be looking for. If you don't have time to read it all yourself, assign it to your raid leaders for now.

    EJ DK FAQ (covers both DPS and tanking)
    WoW Official Forums 3.2.2 DK Tanking Guide (w/ Cliff's Notes)
    WoW Official Forums: Ashe's DK Tanking Guide
    WoWHead DK post-3.2 tanking FAQ

    Additional resources:
    Tankspot Guides
    WoW Official Tanking Forums Beginniner's Guide to Tanking - by Class

  18. #38
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    Bovinity, unless they changed something and I missed it, Savage Defense stacks, they said so when the ability was released. It doesn't have a chance to often simply because of relative avoidance and crit rate for bear tanks, and you wouldn't notice very well when it did.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  19. #39
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    242
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Actually HS threat is normalized and is based more off of the dps of the weapon iirc, the speed doesn't really matter. However, devestate is arguably better with a slower weapon since they tend to have more high end.

    Having said that weapon speed is one of the last things a warrior looks at when chosing a tank weapon. Stats are far more important. Luckily as ivalue and stats have increased so has the dps/tps of your typical tanking weapon so its not really something tanks have to think about.
    it's been awhile since i've tanked on my warrior, but everything i've ever read shows warriors favoring fast weapons because heroic striking with greater frequency is more effective over time than slower, bigger strikes. besides, past nax 25 you really don't have any slow tanking weapons to choose from, so it seems to be a conscious design decision.

    HS threat is not normalized, never has been.
    The reason weapon speed matters so little is because Deep Wounds favors slow weapons, balancing out threat somewhat.
    acknowledged. I still don't see many warriors swinging slow weapons, though. especially since past nax 25, there are no slow tanking weapons, unless you count QS, which is sort of a hybrid.

  20. #40
    Bovinity, unless they changed something and I missed it, Savage Defense stacks, they said so when the ability was released. It doesn't have a chance to often simply because of relative avoidance and crit rate for bear tanks, and you wouldn't notice very well when it did.
    It doesn't stack, and has never stacked. That was one of the big analysis topics early on when it was released - the fact that it paled in comparison to block on large packs since no matter how much you crit you're going to just have one application of it every ~1.5 sec which will go away when you get hit once, but on paper seemed better than block for slow hitting bosses since it could have a huge uptime.

    If it stacked, I'd totally just pull a ton of whelps while tanking Onyxia, spam swipe with my ~55-60%+ crit and avoidance rates and have stacks and stacks and stacks of SD up constantly.

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