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Thread: Warrior tank 1-shot by 10man onyxia?

  1. #1
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    Warrior tank 1-shot by 10man onyxia?

    Earlyer today i was in an onyxia 10 raid and when i went to pull onyxia, she 1 shot me.... i have no clue as to why this happened as im fairly well geared and ive tanked her before in 10/25 with no problems.If anyone has any clue as to why this happened then please tell me.

    Heres my armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

  2. #2
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    Running any sort of logging software would have given you the straight answer right there and then, you should still be uncrittable with that resi enchant so there's nothing horribly wrong with your armory 'cept you're gemming for parry which I wouldn't.

    That would however not kill you directly, so we can't answer unless you have some sort of log we can look at.

  3. #3
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    10 Man Ony somewhat soft, except for the occasional cleave which I have clocked at 31k at its highest. Its just something to be aware of. It shocked the hell out of me when I saw my health drop.
    Last edited by Eoika; 10-15-2009 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Grammar!

  4. #4
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    Ok, could you tell me what i should be gemming in and how would i be able to get a log?

  5. #5
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    Your defense is 538 + 15 res .. she is a raid boss you can be crit (you have a gap by my quick calc) which is a pretty good guess what happened.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  6. #6
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    Either you go the in-game way and try one of the many deathlog addons that exist, or you do /combatlog either manually or with the help of the excellent Loggerhead, and upload the log to WoL (which is my favorite, but WWS/WoWmeters works too) when you're done. This of course won't let us see what happened there and then, as the logger only outputs data if you first tell it to.

    As for the gemming, Dodge and Parry gives diminishing returns at different rates, meaning that until you have almost twice (1.88:1) as much Dodge as Parry (it's a little bit more complicated, try a search for dodge vs parry ratio if you want to know the exact mechanics), you should stack dodge as it gives more avoidance per point.

    I'm only using parry from gear and I'm at something like 1.75:1 at almost all times (only exception is if I pop both my dodge trinkets and have the dodge libram active at the same time), which means I keep stacking that dodge.
    Last edited by Vorla; 10-15-2009 at 11:47 PM. Reason: clarification

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglybbtoo View Post
    Your defense is 538 + 15 res .. she is a raid boss you can be crit (you have a gap by my quick calc) which is a pretty good guess what happened.
    Actualy no, on our 2nd attempt at her the OT tanked her instead of me and she dropped the helm im currently wearing, the armory just updated inbetween me socketing my helm and putting the chant from the argent crusade on it so i actualy have 542 def, not 238. The helm i used to have on was the Conqueror's Siegebreaker Greathelm which is socketed and chanted exactly the same as the new helm.
    Last edited by Dalemaunder; 10-16-2009 at 02:09 AM.

  8. #8
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    Can't imagine how you get 1 shot then I have never seen anything near 20K. Her cleaves are listed as 15K and wing buffet and flame breath 20K unresisted ... so RNG perhaps with two one after another??

    As others said get grim reaper or logs running to really know.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  9. #9
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    Could be an unlucky cleave + melee hit falling together? I am fairly sure that flame breath resets her swing timer so it wouldnt be that. Onyxia has no ability that will one shot a tank straight out, there is no fusion punch or hateful strike.

    You were crit immune with 538 def+15 resil so we can cut a crit out of the equation, only really leaving unlucky attack combos on the table.

  10. #10
    17 expertise?
    Wing buffet (kicked you out of range of healers)
    Onyxia Melee you
    OnNextSwing cleave
    You hit Ony Ony parry
    Parry hasted melee

    Quite enough to kill someone with your level of gear, as others said you cannot ask questions until you are able to provide you with any sort of log.
    1) Recount - deaths tab, easiest way
    2) Good combat log e.g. "Hits Mode" addon
    3) Loggerhead/Upload combat log, most advanced way gives you most informations.

    Good tanking comes from anticipation of incomming damage from boss and getting your gear/talents set according to that.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrea View Post
    Could be an unlucky cleave + melee hit falling together? I am fairly sure that flame breath resets her swing timer so it wouldnt be that. Onyxia has no ability that will one shot a tank straight out, there is no fusion punch or hateful strike.

    You were crit immune with 538 def+15 resil so we can cut a crit out of the equation, only really leaving unlucky attack combos on the table.
    As i said before i did NOT have 538 def when it happened, i got the helm off her on the 2nd attempt when the OT tanked her instead, the armory just saved me wearing the helm between when i gemmed it and when i put the enchant on it(i had to get some money off my banker).


    And to Mookey, it was on the very first hit when i pulled her that she 1 hit me so that eliminates half of the possibilitys you listed.
    Last edited by Dalemaunder; 10-16-2009 at 02:14 AM. Reason: extra info

  12. #12
    If you were crittable - half of the possibilities are quite enough
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglybbtoo View Post
    Your defense is 538 + 15 res .. she is a raid boss you can be crit (you have a gap by my quick calc) which is a pretty good guess what happened.
    15 Resilliance is approximately equal to 20 Defense Rating in terms of reducing the chances of receiving a critical strike. As a result, you can go down to 536 Defense Skill + 15 Resilliance and be uncrittable by a Level 83 mob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalemaunder View Post
    Ok, could you tell me what i should be gemming in and how would i be able to get a log?
    You can log at any time simply by typing /combatlog in chat. This will generate a report in "...\World of Warcraft\Logs\" called (I think, can't check as I'm at work) WoWCombatLog.txt. There a number of sites out there that can then take that file and produce a full report with graphs, information on incoming/outgoing damage and so on for your whole raid. The most popular of such logging sites is currently World of Logs at worldoflogs.com.

    As for your gems, I'd move away from the Def/Parry gems and ensure that you're always using Stamina as at least half of each gem. I personally match socket bonuses of +9 Stam or higher and ignore all others in favour of straight Stam. For red sockets with a good bonus, use Dodge/Stam (or Parry/Stam when you have the right ratio, info in a sec) and for yellow sockets use Def/Stam. For blue or colourless sockets obviously just use straight Stam.

    As for when you gem / enchant for Parry over Dodge:

    When (character_sheet_dodge% - 10) / (character_sheet_parry% - 10) > 1.88 then you get more avoidance per point of Parry than of Dodge. Prior to this ratio, Dodge will be more avoidance per point.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalemaunder View Post
    As i said before i did NOT have 538 def when it happened
    His point was that it wouldn't have mattered if you were at 538 anyway as your shoulder enchant was keeping you crit immune down to 536. Ignore the previous poster who suggested you were critically hit - even if you had been at 538 at the time, you couldn't have been.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookey View Post
    If you were crittable - half of the possibilities are quite enough
    He wasn't so get over it.

    It happened while you pulled. Did you walk backwards, strafe or run directly to the end of the cave? If you walked backwards then her movement is erratic. If you strafed then it could be that she somehow sneaked a couple of attacks into your back. If you turned your back to her and ran, well...what can I say?

    It's not a bad idea to use a cooldown when positioning her. She has quite a few different abilities she could've used close to each other and during the pull the healers are handicapped by moving. What I'm saying is: don't expect top heals from healers while on the run. Being two shot is more likely what happened to you and that can quite easily happen.

    Respect Onyixia! She could wipe a raid back in vanilla at will and will continue to do so until kingdom come. A loot pinata she ain't.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  16. #16
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    May have been a lag spike and you got hit twice before you even noticed.

    Sometimes these things just happen, I'm afraid. Though you should really have been able to take three hits without healing, so if that was the case it was one hell of a lag spike.

    Otherwise I don't know. May have just been a freak occurance.

  17. #17
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    When I take a big burst of damage, I always check the "what happened to me" in the combat log section... it provides loads of useful information for these situations...

    If you say it was only 1 hit and you were uncrittable... i got no idea what could've been =\

  18. #18
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    Your armor is low, that's why you take higher damage from physical hits.

  19. #19
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    Also don't forget that sneaky 0.000000000000000000000000001% chance you can be crit even over the "defence cap" (prefer defence minimum but thats just being picky :P)

    Or something truely silly like you were in zerker stance taking 10% more dmg.

    Things happen - if you know theres a more dodgy part of the fight - be prepared for it! Indestructible pot on pull (i wouldn't in ony 10 or 25 but might have done when my gar was weaker). Don't be afraid to use your CDs!

    As a side note - glyph of rapid charge - PVP glyph really if even that! Get last stand if you want to eat the burst dmg with max hp. Or one of the other interesting warrior glyphs out there (sunder/devestate/SW/revenge are all pretty nice - I even used the tuant one the other day!) Also spec wise - 3 points in armed to the teeth will do more for your tps than the 3 points in cruelty but warriros don't really have single target issues :P

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Daishan12 View Post
    Also don't forget that sneaky 0.000000000000000000000000001% chance you can be crit even over the "defence cap" (prefer defence minimum but thats just being picky :P)
    A raid boss will never critt you if you have the minimum defence rating needed ever.

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