Problem during ToC10 at worms
Hey there mates,
I've already tanked all bosses in ToC10 after Jaraxxus (jaraxxus included). Yesterday I started a fresh run in ToC10 and I noticed two things. But before that, this was our raid setup:
- 3 shammies (1 resto, 1 elemental, 1 enhancement)
- 2 prot warriors (me + a better equipped one)
- 2 paladins (1 retri and 1 holy)
- 1 mage
- 1 hunter
- 1 rogue
We were getting MotW buff from Drums of the Wild.
My HP was sitting on 38k buffed up.
The problems I felt were the following:
@Gormok - We were switching tanks at 3 impales, I was keeping demo shout and thunderclap up the whole time but when I had 2 impales, the damage would start stacking up pretty fast and i would take too much dmg making my HP drop a lil' bit too fast.
@Worms - On first tries, people forgot to buff up fire resistance (/facepalm) and as a consequence of that I pretty much got "one shotted" when Dreadscale did the molten spew (2.8k * 10 hits + fire debuff tick + the fact my HP wasn't full). Even on the latter tries, the healers were having a hard time keeping me up (according to what they said afterwards)...
Personally I didn't feel this many difficulty on any of the later bosses in the instance, just on this ones... any hints on this? :P
(I know the bracers lack the stamina enchant still)
Firstly, your unbuffed HP is on the dangerously low side for tanking TotC just now - while I don't doubt you could survive most of it, your healers will certainly be feeling the strain, especially if something like Burning Bile can one-shot you.
One of the primary problems is that you're carrying a large number of items that don't have any Defense Rating on them, which means you're having to focus an awful lot on gemming for Defense (unless this is your Avoidance set you've logged out in, in which case ignore me). Between Keystone Great-Ring, Mark of the Relentless and Peacekeeper Blade, you're leaving yourself way short.
For tanking TotC, I'd keep only Mark of the Relentless of these pieces. For your weapon, see if you can get Titanguard to drop from 25-man Flame Leviathan (easily puggable if your guild doesn't run 25-man content). For your second ring, perhaps pick up Signet of the Imprgnible Fortress (25 Emblems of Valor) or the Emblem of Triumph ring if you can afford it. This will net you a lot of Defense Rating, meaning you can begin to focus more on EH-related gems.
I'd recommend switching your Chest enchant to +22 Defense (from an iLevel perspective it's way better than +275 HP anyway) and either choosing +16 Defense or +225 Armor for your cloak. From there, aim to put Def/Stam gems in your yellow sockets (if the bonus is +9 Stam or greater, generally speaking), Dodge/Stam in reds (or possibly Expertise/Stam if your threat is really low) and straight Stam in blues. You also really want to keep running Sons of Hodir until Exalted as a matter of priority.
I just had a play around in chardev.org with your character and by changing Keystone for Impregnible Fortress and Peacekeeper for Teldrassil Protector (available for Champion's Seals), gemming your Chest and Cloak for Defense and then regemming for Stamina, you gain in excess of 2,000 HP.
As Avoidance does very little in the most dangerous parts of TotC outside of the adds on Anub'arak, it makes sense to be maximising Effective Health, especially since yours is really low for the level you'd expect for the instance.
I'm reluctant to say you're not geared enough for this particular raid as great things can be achieved with weaker gear than people cite, but even with what you have it's entirely possible to rework it to be more to your advantage inside TotC.
Do continue to run Heroics and Ulduar, however, as you'll find TotC periodically much easier the more gear you acquire and there are some great upgrades for you from either badges or as drops.
Thanks for the fast reply... I was also playing a bit with chardev just now trying out what you suggested.
Here's what I did:
-Slapped pure stam gems on all the gear I currently have.
-Switched weapon for Sen'jin Axe of the Protector
-Switched ring as suggested
-Switched the enchant on cloak (titanweave instead of agi)
The gain is only 1500 (1900 with the missing bracer enchant... but that goes "for both" gear builds).
Dunno if i'm missing something here.
chardev seven . character planner . fierceblow - revamped
Edit: my bad, forgot to get the red gem for the meta effect. 1600 difference (if we don't count the stamina enchant on bracers difference)
Edit2: Also checked the difference with the t8.5 headpiece... same HP and some avoidance improvement (more block, less parry).
Last edited by Kuraf; 10-15-2009 at 09:07 AM.
Here's how my guild handles the first two beasts in beasts of northrend (I'm just hitting the high notes, not a full wall-of-text writeup):
1st tank calls for a taunt at 2 impales.
After that, when the "offtank" (whichever doesn't have aggro at the moment) notices his impale debuff has expired, he calls out on vent ("takin' it back!") and taunts. Usually the tanks only get 2 impales each that way.
Since you had two paladins, they should have bubbled the impale debuff off of both tanks (if they both had impales when gormok went down). This makes healing through the worms much easier on the initial pull. If you don't have paladins to bubble you, it doesn't hurt to remind the healers that you still are taking impale damage ("I still have two stacks of impale"). Some of them may assume the debuff clears when gormok dies, and be busy trying to regen some mana or whatever.
Kill Acidmaw first. The other will enrage, but healing through that is much easier than dealing with the poison debuff for most of the fight (as opposed to trying to whittle them both down at the same time).
Use healing assignments for the worms -- each tank's healer will wind up healing the other tank too when they can afford to, but because the worms keep resurfacing in random locations, it's good to have healers specifically assigned to stay in range of each tank. Some of the healing "difficulty" may just have been a lack of coordination between the healers.
Last edited by Bashal; 10-15-2009 at 09:26 AM.
Thanks for the overview of the fight but my main concern here is actually the burst of damage I was taking. We usually do this with 2 healers and we've never actually had many problems.
Originally Posted by Bashal
Even last week it was me (on my main - resto shammy) and another shammy healing and we did it without many issues. Even then, the OT was pretty much geared as I currently am... that's why I was wondering about the burst of dmg I was taking :S
Burst damage requires...burst healing, lol. Seriously the healers need to be on the ball there and keep you alive. You can help with a shield wall or something but you won't have a cd that can help every time. But making sure you aren't taking any residual impale damage on top of everything else helps a lot.
Originally Posted by Kuraf
Maybe it was the healers you had with you? Maybe one of them had an off day or something? Try tanking it again another night and see if you have the same problem.
Originally Posted by Kuraf
^^ that was why I had the brief sketch of the fight. Sounded like you weren't sure if you were handling the fights right. You'll notice, though, that I suggested trying to keep the impales down to 2 stacks instead of three... less damage.
Originally Posted by Kuraf
EDIT: also, we usually run with 3 healers. We can probably do it with two, but meh.
Also, beyond the gear changes suggested, you can also switch your talents and glyphs to a more progression oriented setup, using the 5/15/51 spec and glyphing shieldwall and laststand so you have both on a 2 minute cooldown, you cannot possibly grasp how much having a cooldown always ready can change things untill you experiment with it.
Plus the improved demo shout will sure help.
I'll take that in consideration all will try using my off spec next time I go there.
Originally Posted by Stompya
Thanks for the feedback.
You guys are running with only 2 healers?
Honestly, I've never understood that, TOC normal is easily doable dps wise with 3 healers.
If you're almost dying with only 2 impales on you, something is pretty wrong.
You can easily 10 man flame levi 25, (just have everyone be in Demo's... I've done it with as few as 6 people) try to get leviathons coil and titanguard. both big upgrades for you.
We've never actually had much problems running ToC10 with 2 healers. We don't have that many healers and in order to maximize the number of runs to ToC10 to gear up our chars and/or alts, we try to spread out the healers thro the groups.
The main difference in that setup was that I was going with tank instead of the healer (my main) and one of the palas that usually go retri, was going as holy...
I usually add in full raid buffs in Chardev whereas you presumably went with the ubuffed figures, which'd account for the discrepency. Add in PW:F, MotW, BoK, Flask and Food and you're way over 2k extra and full raid buffed is where it really matters most. That said, I wasn't terribly clear about whether I meant unbuffed or not in my post, so I apologise.
Originally Posted by Kuraf
Yeah i thought about that as well. I'll do the math again later on.
Thanks for the feedback guys... you've been pretty helpful
(Already got the ring too... will get axe later today)
The good news is that as you collect more and more Tier 9 / Coliseum gear you'll find that there's lots of Defense Rating on almost all the pieces - first time I've felt like that since pre-Naxx, haha! Pretty soon you'll have enough to go back to a non-Defense weapon such as Peacekeeper Blade or, if you're luckier than I've been so far, Quel'serrar