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Thread: PTR 3.3 DK DW talent

  1. #41
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    I would miss KM , since I use it alot (it basically is my runic dump), overall 5/5 BA would be better then KM threat wise for you since you also won't have SoB and wont generate that much RP.

    and I agree with Bashal, if you really need IIT, I wouldn't take DW

    but yeah, you could go with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...t,aMw3e-,10571 also.
    I just love KM and will never (Except if they nerf it in future) get rid of it.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    So you're running a single disease rotation.

    You might consider trying a double disease setup. It's a little more awkward, but it does benefit a great deal, as OB and BS get noticeable damage buffs with the second disease. 2 diseases make it much nicer to hit OB every chance and use HB primarily on Rime procs (unless you're doing packs), which actually works just fine for ensuring 100% FF uptime.
    Just tried it out it is a large improvement over my old single disease however now i have mixed feeling about HB glyph still worth keeping?
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasterion View Post
    however now i have mixed feeling about HB glyph still worth keeping?
    I wouldn't. I usually only grab it if I need it for some gimmick fight like tanking in Thorim's Arena.

  4. #44
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    I still use it to ensure 100% uptime on FF. I let BP drop sometimes depending on how the rotation goes only making sure it is up before I hit OB again.

    I don't think it's vital though, you can surely make do without.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  5. #45
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    well right now I redo Icy Touch and Plague strike not sure if i am suppose to do that.
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasterion View Post
    well right now I redo Icy Touch and Plague strike not sure if i am suppose to do that.
    Only cast IT and PS when diseases are about to go out. otherwise use Blood Strike (first rotation use it twice to have Blade Barrier up and running) then mainly Obliterate, Rune Strike, Frost Strike, Howling Blast and DnD.

    Never cast IT and PS twice, its a big waste of frost and unholy runes (obliterate).
    Last edited by Trork; 10-21-2009 at 06:11 AM. Reason: BS

  7. #47
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    Refreshing with IT/PS is entirely fine. And to be clear, they are not a waste of FU pairs, they're just less valuable than OB and HB if you have diseases up.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  8. #48
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    I run a 2-disease rotation and i use glyph'd pestilence to refresh diseases. I lose the blood strike but it frees up all frost and unholy runes for obliterate, and reserves KM procs for only frost strike and howling blast, since i don't touch IT after the initial pull unless i let the diseases fall off by accident.

  9. #49
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    well Frost Fever if anything i can refresh with howling blast Blood Plague.... I really don't use Blood Plague unless I only tank 1 target now with that said My starter threat kinda sucks without a good Death Chill HB
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  10. #50
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    That's the way I've done it in the past Blast. I glyph HB, single disease aoe packs and double disease single targets. Keeps it versatile.

    Frost is the one spec that can actually *really* open up big like that. The others have to actually sacrifice longer term threat or are slower to reach cruising speed if they try to spike on the first hit.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  11. #51
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    maybe my lol maybe my dps lacks restraint but then again i am like that when I am on my main raiding as well so I don't blame them it's just I can feign mine off so other unfortunate classes are just... unfortunate
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  12. #52
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    Opening threat as DPS is more often a matter of restraint and doesn't have to noticeably affect their bottom line.

    Some newer dpsers who never *had* to learn the skills with threat management seem to think it is perfectly OK to open up everything they have on a target before the tank has even reached them, in the name of maximizing damage. Some of them think that when they pull like that it is the tank's fault.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #53
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    My friend is highly defensed so he went DW Frost Tanking with double quel'serar ( excuse spelling) Testimony was threat sucked (he used obvious swordbreakers) and since he had enough defense to over come the 25 def deficiency
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  14. #54
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    I've been reading up on the DW discussion these last few days, wanting to try my hand at it, but there are a few points I'm not fully understanding.

    1) Killing Machine being based on melee strikes i good, but I don't see the abilities it affect being used all that often to validate the 5 points.

    2) As far as I can read, DW is supposed to use more RP than 2H, why is that?

    3) Is Hit something you should consider or is it alright just to shoot for the special or spell cap?

    Thanks for the forthcoming replies.

  15. #55
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    4-5 points is the best to keep up
    DW swings 2-3 times as often as a 2h usually and Rune Strike is a "next melee" attack which drains 20 Runic Power. and if the avoidance is good the runestrike should be kept toggled and there for draining 20 runic power 2-3 times faster
    As long as most ur spells hit I think it'll be alright
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasterion View Post
    4-5 points is the best to keep up
    DW swings 2-3 times as often as a 2h usually and Rune Strike is a "next melee" attack which drains 20 Runic Power. and if the avoidance is good the runestrike should be kept toggled and there for draining 20 runic power 2-3 times faster
    As long as most ur spells hit I think it'll be alright
    Thanks for the response Blasterion. I don't feel I got my first question answered (and looking back I should probably phrase it differently), so here goes:

    Killing Machine being based on melee strikes is good, but I don't see the abilities it affect being used all that often to validate the 5 points. Why is it a staple in the DW builds?

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardilann View Post
    Thanks for the response Blasterion. I don't feel I got my first question answered (and looking back I should probably phrase it differently), so here goes:

    Killing Machine being based on melee strikes is good, but I don't see the abilities it affect being used all that often to validate the 5 points. Why is it a staple in the DW builds?
    One of the main drawbacks a lot of people feel about DW builds is threat. While this has not been my experience yet, that is the reason so many people consider KM so important.

    In my experience with Slow/Fast setup, Frost Strike, HB and IT make up a small amount of my overall threat on bosses when compared to Obliterate, Rune Strike, and auto attacks. On mob packs, though, KM can be a real nice bonus with a HB single disease rotation... crits hold threat pretty well!

    I am eagerly awaiting the introduction of the 1h SG enchants... I lose quite a bit of stamina moving to my DW setup.
    Last edited by mav1234; 10-25-2009 at 10:30 PM.

  18. #58
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    I have bought two Tankards on my new DK, and will DW tank in 3.3 just because I don't think I'll get a better two-hander in the meantime (due to my particular situation, not gaming much next month or two).

    I do like the flexibility the new runeforge will give us.
    The DK tank site: pwnwear.com.

  19. #59
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    I like DW tanking cuz... idk weapons are bit easier to get
    sKsBlaster/Blasterion for Stim Kill Smile and Last Light on Stim Kill Smile and MedivhUS

  20. #60
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    A couple of clarifications:

    Killing Machine is a key ability, period. As a DPS'er it will give you a slight buff to crit chance as a decent portion of your moves listed will already be crits (dps set having crit and all). As a tank it has a markably larger threat value *because* you don't have much crit chance.

    Think of it this way, bear in mind these are made up figures on proc rate just for illustration:
    If 5/5 KM procs off dual wield weapon swings (main-hand only will proc it, but a slow 1h is still faster than a 2h) 5 times per minute, that is 5 guaranteed crits per minute. If you're using your abilities smartly, we'll say it only ever will be used on HB/FS. 1 minute is roughly 6 rune sets or 3 bi-phasic rune cycles. Per bi-phase cycle you will use maybe 1-2 FS and 1-2 HB. We'll say on average it is 5 FS and 5 HB per minute (allowing for glyphed FS, RS procs, using HB only on Rime procs for simplicity sake, etc). So, 10 in total. If you're a dps with 40% crit, 4 of the 10 will crit all on their own without KM. If the overlap is about at its average, we can say 1 proc will definitely be used per minute, so we'll have 5 out of 10, your crit chance went up 10% from that talent. If you're a tank, however, and you only have 10% crit chance, you will only normally expect 1 of those 10 to crit. Killing Machine then has a high chance of using all of the procs. We'll say that 10% crit chance comes up enough to wipe one, you still now get 5 procs, and suddenly your crit chance on those abilities went up an average total of 40%.

    Does that make sense? Killing Machine, like Bladed Armor, was carefully (re)designed and balanced to buff tanks well without over-buffing DPSers.



    The second issue: Dual Wield tanking as Frost giving lower threat is a dinosaur. It's extinct. Dual wield frost now has all the tools to surpass 2h threat. The combined weapon swings will do more damage than an equivalent 2h even factoring in the reduced hit chance on the auto-swings. ToT now applies to RS as well. And from all indications each portion of the two-hit Obliterate seems to have an independent chance to proc Rime.

    That said, dual wielding with Unholy or Blood may have more of an uphill battle, or a necessary re-balancing of talents and gear stats to counter the potential loss of damage when switching from a 2h for tanking.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

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