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Thread: Cata Holy Priest Guide (4.0.3)

  1. #61
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    Thank you

    I appreciate the guide it has helped me become a better healer and so far so good my guild appreciates me too.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena View Post
    Sadly, that's currently how it is. While I can get the job done (badly compared to any other class played by a player of similar performance and gear level), you'd never find me tank healing as holy, I'd switch specs beforehand. It's just no good.
    I'd switch specs to MT end game content too (if I wasn't currently facemelter for my 2nd spec). But I suspect that getting the job done badly compared to any other class is partially due to the fact that you have way more experience MT healing as Disc than you do Holy, and partially because (and this is a total unjustified assumption) maybe you didn't come up in the game when mastering the pre-emptive Gheal was the go-to strategy for keeping the main tank alive.

    But if we agree that Holy Pallys and Disc Priests are the best MT healers, I still don't see an argument that a Resto Druid or Resto Shammy is significantly better than a Holy Priest that would justify giving my fav spec the "worst" moniker. Guardian Spirit really seals the deal for me over Trees and Shammys as who to choose for MT duties when the Pallys and Bubble Priests are vacationing in the Caymans.

  3. #63
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    Nope. I've been playing since vanilla and cleared all content in BC as it came available so I'm very used to gheal and downranking (and boy do I miss it!). The game has changed in such a way that right now, holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do. That's something we have to accept and I'm sure it'll change again over time, as everything in this game does.

    Guardian Spirit is a cooldown that doesn't require you to be a tank healer to apply it. So while it saves tank lives, it doesn't actually help our tank healing throughput or speed.
    Last edited by Aliena; 10-28-2009 at 07:28 PM.

  4. #64
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    holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do.
    Even in lower level stuff this appears to hold true, I could keep the group alive at the black knight phase 3 (2700 hps pewpew), but had to use my cooldowns and a manapot to keep the tank up at eadric (where I basically used flash heal, renew, shield and PoM). holy priests are, quite simply, group/raid healers, they have a multitude of fairly efficient tools to do this. Flash heal costs about 650 mana, and only heals a single target. For 150 more mana I can cast Circle of healing and heal the same amount on up to 6 players (and CoH is instant too, flash heal isnt always).

    I found this guide invaluable when finding out about my new alt so thanks for that

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brittmari View Post
    ...the "worst" moniker. Guardian Spirit...
    I guess what everyone is saying would be that Holy has become very inefficient as MT healers. In the hands of a skilled player, I'd bet that every healer who's properly geared would be able to keep the tank up. The question now is which spec serves the role more efficiently.

    Like what Aliena mentioned in the above post, a Holy priest can still apply glyphed GS on tank without having to be assigned to MT (that's what i do anyway when I'm raid healing as Holy). Also, I'd rather be raid heals when I'm Holy as I'm now so much more efficient at keeping everyone up (and topped up).

  6. #66
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    IMO it's all about bringing the right tools for the job. Look at what spells holy props up and how it props them up, then compare them to what and how the disc tree does the same.

    Holy enhances your AoEs (even giving you another one), lets spell crits proc free flash heals, and has your flash heals stack a haste buff for your big heal. Additionally you get significant enhancements for your one HoT. That's a lot of enhancement for AoE's, fire and forgets, and a lot of enhancement for fast, emergency, single-target healing.

    Disc enhances your mitigation spells (soul warding); adds more mitigation abilities to your other heals (divine aegis); props the hell out of your low-cost, precision heal (flash heal); gives you a new, shiny quick hot that blows the class's bomb heal out of the water on mana efficiency and average healing done when you stack a bit of crit (penance); and gives you a considerable throughput advantage when you heal a single target to the exclusion of others (grace). Additionally, Disc greatly enhances your staying power by allowing you to regen mana in combat through scaleable procs (rapture) and still provides the standard mana reduction talents for your bread-and-butter spells (improved flash heal) that let you support a single target extremely well from both sides of the "take more damage than your HP and die" equation.

    Holy can hit the AoEs for around as long as a Disc priest, but will get a lot more mileage out of them.

    Disc priests don't go OOM unless there's something very wrong happening or they're AoE healing.

    A holy priest can tank heal but he won't have nearly the staying power of a Disc priest, and can only heal damage that has been taken where a disc priest will heal damage taken but can also effectively increase the target's maximum health pool with mitigation effects.

    On the other side of things, a disc priest can only maximize his proc benifits if he heals a single target. A DA proc is more likely to fade without being used when the target is only taking incidental AoE when compared to a tank who will use each and every DA shield. Grace is less than useless when you're raid healing as disc because your bread-and-butter heals only get effect from repeated casting after it's stacked, and your AoE's don't apply it. Serindipity and Surge of Light OTOH don't care what you're healing with or who you're healing. They only care that you're healing both before and after the proc.

    On yet another flip side, the disc talents don't give a rip about who's using them once they're applied. Their use is independent of the priest. Holy is limited by button presses, casting times, and GCDs. When a tank can die so something as simple as a second swing in a row, the time needed to leverage the holy proc talents just isn't there compared to the fire and forget nature of DA and Grace.

    Disc = Tank heals
    Holy = Raid heals

    Both can do both. They just don't sub for each other very well.
    Last edited by Ollin; 10-29-2009 at 04:26 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by !3M View Post
    I guess what everyone is saying would be that Holy has become very inefficient as MT healers. In the hands of a skilled player, I'd bet that every healer who's properly geared would be able to keep the tank up. The question now is which spec serves the role more efficiently.
    I don't think there's anyone arguing that given equal skill and equivalent gear a Holy Priest would make a better tank healer than a Disc Priest would. Originally, I only objected to the word "worst" because I think Resto Shammies and Resto Druids are on par with Holy Priests for single target healing (or maybe slightly below).

    But my main objection to the discussion now is that it reinforces the notion among less knowlegable players that you HAVE to be a Disc Priest or Holy Paladin to be a Tank healer. Raid Leaders shouldn't be browbeaten into thinking that they have to assign a Disc Priest as the Main Tank healer if the Holy Priest is a significantly stronger player.

    Not everyone who plays Warcraft and reads these blogs is fortunate enough to have an ideal group of strong players who are capable of downing all new content on the day it is released.

    Like what Aliena mentioned in the above post, a Holy priest can still apply glyphed GS on tank without having to be assigned to MT (that's what i do anyway when I'm raid healing as Holy). Also, I'd rather be raid heals when I'm Holy as I'm now so much more efficient at keeping everyone up (and topped up).
    Disc Priest can still pop PW:S and PS on the Main Tank while they are assigned to raid heals, so I'm not sure exactly what this point is addressing. My point in bringing up GS was that it was a tool that Holy Priests have that Resto Shammies and Trees don't have that gives the Holy Priest an edge over the other 2 as far as single target healing goes.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollin View Post
    IMO it's all about bringing the right tools for the job. Look at what spells holy props up and how it props them up, then compare them to what and how the disc tree does the same.

    Holy enhances your AoEs (even giving you another one), lets spell crits proc free flash heals, and has your flash heals stack a haste buff for your big heal. Additionally you get significant enhancements for your one HoT. That's a lot of enhancement for AoE's, fire and forgets, and a lot of enhancement for fast, emergency, single-target healing.

    Disc enhances your mitigation spells (soul warding); adds more mitigation abilities to your other heals (divine aegis); props the hell out of your low-cost, precision heal (flash heal); gives you a new, shiny quick hot that blows the class's bomb heal out of the water on mana efficiency and average healing done when you stack a bit of crit (penance); and gives you a considerable throughput advantage when you heal a single target to the exclusion of others (grace). Additionally, Disc greatly enhances your staying power by allowing you to regen mana in combat through scaleable procs (rapture) and still provides the standard mana reduction talents for your bread-and-butter spells (improved flash heal) that let you support a single target extremely well from both sides of the "take more damage than your HP and die" equation.

    Holy can hit the AoEs for around as long as a Disc priest, but will get a lot more mileage out of them.

    Disc priests don't go OOM unless there's something very wrong happening or they're AoE healing.

    A holy priest can tank heal but he won't have nearly the staying power of a Disc priest, and can only heal damage that has been taken where a disc priest will heal damage taken but can also effectively increase the target's maximum health pool with mitigation effects.

    On the other side of things, a disc priest can only maximize his proc benifits if he heals a single target. A DA proc is more likely to fade without being used when the target is only taking incidental AoE when compared to a tank who will use each and every DA shield. Grace is less than useless when you're raid healing as disc because your bread-and-butter heals only get effect from repeated casting after it's stacked, and your AoE's don't apply it. Serindipity and Surge of Light OTOH don't care what you're healing with or who you're healing. They only care that you're healing both before and after the proc.

    On yet another flip side, the disc talents don't give a rip about who's using them once they're applied. Their use is independent of the priest. Holy is limited by button presses, casting times, and GCDs. When a tank can die so something as simple as a second swing in a row, the time needed to leverage the holy proc talents just isn't there compared to the fire and forget nature of DA and Grace.

    Disc = Tank heals
    Holy = Raid heals

    Both can do both. They just don't sub for each other very well.
    If you are running both in a raid, putting the disc priest on raid, and the holy priest on the tank is not taking full advantage of the benefits they bring. As noted previously, PS and GS are cast as needed regardless of your assignment. The two specs are different for a reason, and the reasons are stated above. If you don't have a disc priest, sure, put the holy priest on the tank.

    For the record, I do disagree with this statement:
    "I don't think there's anyone arguing that given equal skill and equivalent gear a Holy Priest would make a better tank healer than a Disc Priest would."
    In my opinion, the Holy priest would need to outgear and outskill the Disc priest and would still need to have an awesome tank assignment. A Disc priest can do more with less and still keep an average tank up.

  9. #69
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    i want to clarify what i said:

    "holy priest is at the moment the worst class/spec to heal a tank"

    this is based on:

    Every other class is better at tank healing than the holy priest. And the holy priest is better at raid healing than any other class but the restoration druids.

    Doesn't that makes the holy priest your last option to keep up a tank?

    Also, please have in mind you have to min/max. If you'll come saying holy priest are able to tank heal, have them tankhealing Algalon.

    It's like gemming and enchanting your gear. as a Holy Priest you look at Twin Valks, as the fight that "tells you" what to gem and how to spec. That fight gives you a perfect balance for your gear for the current patch.

    What im trying to say is: if you have any doubts about what spec/class is best at what, just pick two fights. One that requires massive tank heals (algalon,impaler,anub heroic?) and one that requires massive raid heals. best classes for each situation will shine.

  10. #70
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    thank you very much for this guide. i found it very thorough and informative and loved the tone. i'm still relatively new at holy priest-dom (switched from rogue at 3.1).

    i am having a lot of trouble figuring out which weapon upgrades to shoot for for since 3.2/ToTC. i've been concerned with the lack of spirit on virtually all possible upgrades (save the 25-man heroic, "tribute to skill" staff, which is nowhere near on the horizon for me at this point), but this guide has helped dampen those concerns somewhat. i know one thing for sure--i'll definitely be switching my SP/Haste & SP/Crit gems to luminous ametrines tonight. i'm also seriously considering picking up talisman of resurgence to replace spark of hope.

    can anyone point me to a place where the current holy priest weapon issue is discussed, here or elsewhere? not loot rank lists--i mean discussion of 2H vs. MH/OH combos, etc. i'm new, so apologies if i'm missing something obvious.

    thanks again.
    watching buttercups cup the light, sleeping on a dandelion...

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena View Post
    I think you're stuck in the last expansion somehow. I would offer you a time portal but I'm kind of scared to be sharing the same universe with you.

    Kidding. Sort of.
    I saw your posting and I don't kid one bit about raiding; serious is a major understatement. Sorry, but you are completely wrong and disp priest aren't healers. I have had more than a few wipes to prove that. I would except being wrong if someone could ever toss up some solid proof. I would except that some disp priest don’t know their own spec. So far no one has proven anything to me. I told someone else on some another board to act like am from Missouri and show me. To date no proof at all; just opinions and lofty ideas. I would like to give it chance and sim it but so far there isn't any simulators out there that I have found that could simulate the a fight to play what if’s really. And paying for a 25 man wipes to play what if’s isn't in the budget. Oh, the time portal for you to the future is in Shat! =P

    I was kidding Aliena about the portal. It's not really there. There goes Aliena looking for something else that isn't there. <sigh>

    Oh Boy!


    Last joke aside, I give you guys a chance to change my mind and you haven’t. I figured that if there was any group that could; this one would have the best fighting chance. What I got was more we are right and your wrong; sad to say. I don’t like killing good ideas and am normally all ears. Sure I tossed it out like a gauntlet on the ground to try to get the best priest out there to take a stand, have faith in what s/he believed in and grounded in solid facts. I didn’t get that. I am sorry for the setup but I wanted moving proof if it was there. Opinions and lofty ideas don’t move me guys. Oh well.

    I didn’t get it so I will remain unmoved as a tank should be; doing smart, proven and safe actions to keep my raid alive. I’ll stick with my Holy Priest, Holy Pallies, Restro shammies and Druids.

    Take care and see you around. Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by Kazeyonoma; 11-09-2009 at 10:20 AM.

  12. #72
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    GL to you

    Doc

  13. #73
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    I tank healed as Holy for a lot of 10 man fights, including all of TOC and most of Ulduar.

    I think the biggest problem with Holy tank healing is that we can't afford to spam heals on Tanks like other healers can. On Gormok, for instance, if I were to spam gheal like a Paladin, I'd put out less healing, slower, and likely run OOM faster or lose the tank. Also, serendipity requires weaving flash heals to get our Gheal up to a reasonable speed. It *can* be done, especially when you add in POM and renew - however, pretty much everyone else does it better.

    we're better off using COH and hasted POH to heal up the raid. Its just where our strengths lie.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliena View Post
    Nope. I've been playing since vanilla and cleared all content in BC as it came available so I'm very used to gheal and downranking (and boy do I miss it!). The game has changed in such a way that right now, holy priests are very inefficient tank healers which becomes more and more obvious the higher up content you do. That's something we have to accept and I'm sure it'll change again over time, as everything in this game does.
    I am glad to see I am not the only one who misses downranking! Once Blizz took away that option, I find that I rarely use GHeal.

    As for showing gruuk proof, I have seen plenty of it in responses to his Missouri post. I do not think judging a spec based off of attempts at Ony (with alts, no less, which may indicate a reduction in effective game play or understanding of the specs played...ie, negative transfer from the main toon's game play) provides this forum with any proof of your supposition that disc priests are worthless and thus barred from your raids. Holy is my main spec but everyone in my guild is glad when I do switch to disc to provide the numerous benefits disc priests can bring (your detested bubbles being chief among them) when the fight dictates it. Our pally, DK, warrior, and druid tanks neither object nor complain about the loss of threat...since they don't have that problem, even with the bubbles.
    Our biggest threat of failure stems not from having a disc priest in the raid, but from dps who obsess over recount stats.

    Let go of the meter-reading...you will be much happier for it.
    Last edited by hellokitti; 11-09-2009 at 10:38 AM.
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  15. #75
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    I see some UI's of raiding priests that have a mod that tells them "prayer of mending is now available" and "circle of healing is now available". I am an endgame raiding holy priest and would love to find out just what mod this is please

  16. #76
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    oh and gheal is a joke in the current set up spike tank dmg set-up. it's virtually unusuable in endgame where dmg is so spiky and fast that it's not worth doing AT ALL unless you have serendipity talent. Even then i can count on two hands the times i felt that heal actually landed and wasn't 90% overheal by the time it went off. GC says that's our main heal! LOL I LOVE what they're doign with ICC make the bosses hit for less more often. No more of this totgc tank killed in two hits garbage.

  17. #77
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    to the missouri guy

    Trying to figure out what you want proof of. I think what you're trying to say about discp is even harder to prove. Learn all about the mitigation that class brings to a raid and actually get a competent priest. I have a strong feeling that you are raiding/playing with someone who is offspecced discp or not competent. Or you have assigned them to the wrong healing assignment- (this happens in 90% of even the totgc raids i am in) and are staring at meters.

  18. #78
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    end game raiding

    As for what some of the other posters stated above. It has NEVER been the heals or even tanks which make or break any of the endgame progression fights. It's the dps that can't switch targets on gormok's adds, volcanoes and portals on jaraxxus and target switch on twins and adds on anub.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unluckky View Post
    I see some UI's of raiding priests that have a mod that tells them "prayer of mending is now available" and "circle of healing is now available". I am an endgame raiding holy priest and would love to find out just what mod this is please
    Mik's Scrolling Battle Text can do it.
    I'm sure a myriad of class-timer mods could do it as well.
    "Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruurk View Post
    I saw your posting and I don't kid one bit about raiding; serious is a major understatement. Sorry, but you are completely wrong and disp priest aren't healers.
    ------cut-----
    I didnít get it so I will remain unmoved as a tank should be; doing smart, proven and safe actions to keep my raid alive. Iíll stick with my Holy Priest, Holy Pallies, Restro shammies and Druids.

    Take care and see you around. Thanks for your time.
    Here are two logs from my guilds 1st and 2nd times ever killing heroic beasts 25 and Lord Jaraxus 25 - in which we run with 2 disc healers;
    You will notice I switch to disc on our very first kill around try 11 and can compare effective heals/shields.

    WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

    WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

    You cant argue with the detail presented there - I also run wow-cardio and can present you with several screencaps that show the tanks taking 41+k impale+hit combos and surviving purely because of the combination of discs shield buffers and aegis combinations reducing that and the paladin spam+beacon effects.

    Effects such as PS and what is essentially the ability to increase your main-tanks health by 6-12k at a time make disc priests fantastic additions to raids and realy realy helpful in the current raiding content where the raidbosses can hit spikes of up to 90% of a tanks health - depending on gear.

    ...Although It seems you already made up your mind and I expect the only people reading this and looking at my logs will be people who already know the value of a disc priest anyway....
    At least I can perhaps have helped somone :P

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