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Thread: Dustwallow Marsh Onyxia

  1. #21
    I'm getting a lot of responses saying that the elite add's blast wave is not infact interruptable, I haven't been able to test this for myself due to class inability. Can I get some feedback here please?

  2. #22
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    The large blastwave is NOT interruptable. Its much like Stormcaller Brundir's Overload where DPS and tanks(?) will need to run away. I believe the thing that people believe is interruptable is the Ignite Weapon ability.

  3. #23
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    Ignite is Disarmable. I was assuming by "interrupting" the aoe he meant "don't suck on dps and kill it before it explodes".

  4. #24
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    Why move to far wall?

    EDITED TO ADD:
    Ignore the content of my post below. There's a very good reason to take her to the back wall. Her knockback will actually knock you OVER the front wall and into the middle of the whelp cave.

    All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

    I know that in the original version you definitely would want to do this because there could be respawns in the hall and anyone getting to close to the tunnel could bring in one early. There was also a need to split up sides evenly because whelps would spawn from either side and you had to "handle it".

    However, I have yet to see a cogent argument for why NOW in the level 80 version you need to run the risk of getting out of range of healers and having people getting tail swiped while running along with her JUST to tank her at the far wall. Since she stops moving to cast Flame breath, it's actually quite easy for generally competent DPS and heals to overshoot their following distance and be in the wrong position while she's being moved.

    The ONLY plus I see to moving her to far wall is that ranged dps standing behind her (OUT of range of tail) have a bit of extra time to dps her while she's running to her launch spot. But that generally only benefits ranged dps since melee generally can't keep up while she's moving.

    Conversely, if the tank pulls her and just steps to his/her left and puts back against the wall to the left of where you come in, then there's zero chance of tail swipes, zero chance of being out of range of heals and dps is in range of her the entire time she moves to launch position and the 5-10 seconds of free dps time while she lifts off and no whelps have yet spawned.
    Last edited by Darmaul; 10-21-2009 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Bad tactic turns out.

  5. #25
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    I believe she still wing buffets in Phase 3, I've tanked it a few times, but, having always pulled her to the back wall, I haven't had a chance to notice. I've seen a tank drop a total of one time as a result of healers not keeping up as he pulled her back. But, to be honest, that's a fail on the part of healers who should be used to dealing with a tank that has to move for countless other fights.

  6. #26
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    To toot my horn for my main, an Assassination specced Rogue is highly beneficial for the initial clearing of the whelp spawns. When running the 25-man version of this, if the tanks pick up the whelps from the left and right sides of the room and bring them together, the "Focused Attacks" talent paired with Fan of Knives will essentially give the Rogue infinite energy, making their ability to spam FoK limited only by GCD. I don't have a screenshot of recount after the fight, but the burst damage is rediculously high. This usually isn't too big of an issue, but clearing adds faster is never a bad thing. Rogues can also make sure that they help the tanks pick up aggro by popping Tricks of the Trade on them while spamming FoK.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by solocommand View Post
    * Every Man for Himself is the Human racial.

    I always manage to get feared and tail swiped into the whelps. >.<
    Reaction Timer

    Now go train :P

    at the tail swipe, just get at her side... Not at the back.
    There is no "ctrl" on Fluxx his keyboard... Fluxx is always in control.

  8. #28
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    Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

    I'm out of ideas on what to do.

  9. #29
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    @Lulia - it would be helpful if you could indicate what class of tank you play. Paladins and Death Knights likely have the easiest time picking up whelps, but I can see how it would be difficult for a warrior or, even worse, druid to pick up all the whelps in those scenarios. I can think of two ways that the rest of the group can help out a bit. For the healers, try to get them to stick together as much as possible. This way, you're not having to run many different locations to pick up the whelps. Secondly, if a hunter can MD+Volley on the whelp "entrance way" just as they appear, it makes things much easier for you.

    For the deep breaths, we've always had our people run to either side of the breath. For the most part, this makes two pretty distinct groups. If everyone is scattering every-which-way, it can make things quite a bit more difficult.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

    I'm out of ideas on what to do.
    I see you are a DK tank. If you have problems with the little welps just trow a D&D near 1 side, and if she then uses here deep breath it will still be up near the side so you get most of the welps to you. You can also keep near her deep breath and pop magic bubble so you get protected by it so you can just get the aggro before healers do.

    If its a big add its a bit tricky, You can just wait near the ramp were they come running out of. Or you can wait abit in the middle, DKs can death grip those adds so if you still miss it just dont let the healers get near the ramp because then they will get aggro before you can taunt.

    Also the new version of DBM shows when adds spawn out of them self. So you can keep an eye for that as well.
    There is no "ctrl" on Fluxx his keyboard... Fluxx is always in control.

  11. #31
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    I'll update my DBM, but I have a relatively recent version and its whelp spawn timer is way off. It does not come anywhere near predicting them and is, as such, effectively useless. Since this is 10 man, the other tank is tanking the big add, and I'm collecting both sides of whelps. Luckily, on 10 man, only one side spawns a bunch (4 or 5?) while the other spawns only 2. However, I never know which side it's going to be, so I'm in the middle. What I'm talking about here is that I will see a side start spawning, head over to it, only to get the Deep Breath echo and run to a safe hiding spot. The whelps continue to spawn and when the deep breath is over are all over the healers because of healing aggro as healers healed people during the deep breath.

    I've thought about tossing a D&D into a vague area in the deep breath where I presume the whelps to be, but, it doesn't seem particularly useful in that sense. If I miss them, then I waste my D&D and only have the snap aggro of Howling Blast to back me up. And no, Howling Blast does not have decent enough threat to retain aggro.

    Maybe I just need to react to whelp spawning faster? Maybe I'm not supposed to solo tank that? I don't know, but it's very frustrating that that's what happened all night last night. In fact, one time, she had 3 consecutive deep breaths (all within like 5 seconds of the other), and the first one came right after a whelp spawn...

  12. #32
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    The fight is easy enough, as long as your tanks are decently geared. Our main tank (me, paladin) is Naxx25/Ulduar10 geared for the most part (32k unbuffed) and had no trouble tanking Ony, whelps, or big adds. However, our OT (warrior 29k unbuffed) was getting rflpwnt by the big adds. We switched him to dps and got our other pally into his tank set and the fight got much easier.

    Our strategy--
    Pulling-I pull Ony to the same spot mentioned in video. If you are having trouble with positioning her (I admit it, I turned her wrong once and walked back into a whelp pit), continue walking straight through her until she has turned completely around before turning around yourself, and use her as a guide as to where straight back is. The mini-map also helps.

    P1- EVERYONE who isn't the main tank stacks up on her back legs. This way, they are out of the cleave, away from the tail, and in easy healing range. In our strategy, the focus is on staying grouped up, for the most part. We use Heroism as soon as the tank has good aggro, but this is only if your groups dps is rather low. In our case, it is available again in p3, where you REALLY want to have it. In a high dps group, I would save it for p3.

    P2- when Ony flies into the air, EVERYONE... EVERYONE groups up in the center of the room. As we currently have no DK tank, this is our easiest way to be sure that our tanks can pick up the whelps. As soon as all the whelps are aggroed onto the tanks, all dps burn down the first wave of whelps. Once they are down, the group splits up as follows:
    (1) Main tank remains on whelp duty. Keeping an eye out for whelp spawns and helping with large adds when needed,
    (2) OT picks up the large adds--NOTE: These adds CAN AND SHOULD be disarmed by warriors or rogues. This is the primary reason for putting melee on these adds. Disarming them will stop their AOE ability, making healing much easier. We assign 2 melee (in our case a paladin and a warrior) to killing these adds. These adds are tanked at the Northern most wall, where they spawn from.
    (3) Two ranged dps stay on Onyxia AT ALL TIMES after the first whelps are dead. Our other 2 ranged dps focus on her when there are no whelps, but when they spawn, they help the tank kill them to help the healers. (For us, our shaman and Arc mage stay on Ony, lock and fire mage do whelps. Whelp ppl can help melee with big adds, too, if they are getting behind.)
    During this phase, we assign one of the ranged that never leaves the boss to call out the direction of deep breath. Also, we make sure that Ony isn't brought down again until all whelps and big adds are dead.

    P3- Ony redescends from the sky, and MT picks her up again, and faces her against a wall. Our shaman drops a tremor totem in the tank/healer group, everyone stacks on her back leg again. This may take a little practice in positioning, as you want to be sure to tank her away from the whelp pits. As soon as Exhaustion is gone, blow heroism. Burn burn burn, pass out shiny loots!

    I hope this helped!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    Interesting issue. I've downed Onyxia several times, but have now wiped... 5 times in a row? Mostly due to whelps spawning as she deep breaths. I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to pick up aggro when she deep breaths. By the time it's over the adds are on the healers due to any healing they might have done, and by the time I can try to get to them they have too much aggro from healing themselves to live.

    I'm out of ideas on what to do.
    I would try getting your healers to stay near tanks. For example, the healer assigned to the tank on big adds should stay within about 10 yards of him, and the other healers should stay near the whelp tank.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmaul View Post
    All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

    I know that in the original version you definitely would want to do this because there could be respawns in the hall and anyone getting to close to the tunnel could bring in one early. There was also a need to split up sides evenly because whelps would spawn from either side and you had to "handle it".

    ...................

    Conversely, if the tank pulls her and just steps to his/her left and puts back against the wall to the left of where you come in, then there's zero chance of tail swipes, zero chance of being out of range of heals and dps is in range of her the entire time she moves to launch position and the 5-10 seconds of free dps time while she lifts off and no whelps have yet spawned.
    I've tried doing it like this too, and we found moving her to the back wall helpful for several reasons. First of all, because of the way that she aggros, positioning her on a close wall is... well, quite difficult. The tank must have their back against the wall, and the side walls are a bit more rounded. I could see it working in a group with a hunter who has a misdirect or something of that nature, but as we don't have one in my 10 man, I have found it better to just go to the back. Also, this puts everyone as far away as possible from whelp pits. It also gives dps a pretty good idea of when they can start dpsing, instead of guessing on how long they wait to give tank time to aggro. I tell my raid they can go ahead and lay into her as soon as I make it to the back wall. Tanks can pop a CD if necessary if they feel they will die before a healer can save them. I've never died on the initial pull, even with only a couple of hots on me.

  15. #35
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    I am a big ol Bear and I have MT and OT this encounter on 10 and 25 man what follows is a post that I popped on the guild website and I reference the video on this site ffor the obvious reasons, but there are a couple things that i do a little bit different then the average bear, and I believe that my reasons are justified the easier u can simplify an encounter the faster you move on to the next one, I have macro's set up for all northrend boss encounters that are a lil tricky
    So guys its pretty much the same fight thru and thru
    here is a vid to watch that will assist you i am sure
    the big thing to remember is getting tossed in with the whelps can 50/50 u towards a wipe its more like 80/20 if the OT/s (25) man = 2 OT are not paying close attention
    if you are a ranged palyer its quite simple stay the hell away from the whelp entrance and stay away from the tail... Dragon rules apply to ony she has a bastardizing widow's cleave, justly named beacuse u will have your guts ripped out by her if u get to close to those giant front claws, her tail will send you outta heally range and into the whelps if u are hit the wrong way,
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f206/...sh-onyxia.html

    so phase one goes til 65% once she hits that magic number she splits and hits the air lookin to frickasee' somebody,

    during this phase one OT should be on one side of the whelp holes and The MT should be on the other the other OT should be dealing with the Big adds that come strolling down the tunnel that the raid enters from, whelps very simple gather them up in the centre of the room, don't go nutz on the DPS until the tanks have the aggro on whelps and they are centered together or u are just wasting valuable time and mana, DK's and Locks are stellar for the whelps aoe burn down, locks can SoC them and get right back on ony and DK D&D does a nice number on them get as much DPS on the whelps as fast as u can , for when the big adds come all melee needs to focus on burning the shit outta them prior to his blasstwave, MELEE GET THE F@#$ OUTTA THE BLASTWAVE cast by the big adds if u do not u will start a domino effect, healers become over taxed tanks become underhealed I am sure u see where i am going with this,

    The main reason that the MT should not be on the big adds is due to the Ony drop n fry I have sen her do, if you are wise like me u create macros at 42% i spam a macro advising DPS to slow down on Ony until the adds are down, now some have said it should be spammed at 45 % I say BS to that, anyone know what 2% of 22million , or 2% of 6million is ?? its a S-load , if ranged dps stops and just the dots are on her at 42% she will be down to 41.5% with just the dots, once the adds are down ALL Raid members healers included toss dots throw weapons piles of bear poop tosss any and everything at her the MT needs to be over near where she is flying so he can pick her up straight away, soft DPS til the tank has her positioned on the floor properly, now i have seen several peeps tank her different ways but here is what I have found to work quite well and it seems to keep the raid from getting either feared or tossed into the whelps, position her on one side of the cave or the other , during phase one the tank pulls her straight back so that her ass is facing the entrance to the encounter, during phase three same idea but off to one side or the other ranged can stay closer to the middle of the cave and have less chance to fear into whelps and melee sits behind her front elbow and is far enuf away to not get feared into the whelps, have a shammy in the Tanks group from the start for tremor totem, and for the love of God if u are a prist and u have more then one priest in ur raid casst fear ward on the tank during phase 3 it makes her a much more relaxed encounter when her tail isnt thrashing about because the tank is running around feared and she follows his path, and so does her tail.

    Other then that she is quite easy to drop on 10 and 25 man, DPS minimums for ony 10 3200 Ony 25 u should be bangin at a minimum of 3500 to 3600 it makes for an enjoyable raid when all people are geared and ready to go
    Violence isnt the answer to anything, however it may present itself as the only solution within your reach

  16. #36
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    From what I've seen here, I think my best bet when whelps happen just before a deep breath on 10 man is this:

    Instead of running over (since I'm a DK, lucky me) I can use my range to lay down a death and decay where the majority of the whelps are spawning. I can then run out of the deep breath and will likely have most of their aggro. And strays can be picked off by having their target run to me or the selective use of taunts and death grips.

    Thanks

  17. #37
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    From what I've seen here, I think my best bet when whelps happen just before a deep breath on 10 man is this:

    Instead of running over (since I'm a DK, lucky me) I can use my range to lay down a death and decay where the majority of the whelps are spawning. I can then run out of the deep breath and will likely have most of their aggro. And strays can be picked off by having their target run to me or the selective use of taunts and death grips.
    Lulia

    Yes essentially all u need is DPS with common sense they do not aggro ony til she is in place in phase 1 and with the 25 man ony one tank at each side of the whelp caves and one on big adds and its easy peezy whelp tank should be slowly making their way to each other with all of the whelps once they are both in the middle blast the buttocks off of em with everything u have D&D at the whelp entrance will be super duper to gain initial aggro and as u get closer to ur tanking partner blast it again, Big Bears Swipe = not a chance in hell a DPS is pullin off of me, I usually use CRoar when i get to the centre with the whelps and the other tank has made it there just because he can be freed up then if ness for another big add if there is one already in play, and another on his way down the tunn. I would recommend a /y or /RW for Croar for situations like these because once all the adds focus on u, a healer can get caught off guard, this whole encounter is a simple wash rinse and repeat process, again I stress the importance of the macro's that are easily made.... wiped 6xs in one encounter left the group and waited a day made all my macro's and have not had a wipe since. I would also recommend that for another month or so u ask everyone in vent if they know the encounter (if u use vent) and just have a guildie or a friend say " No never been here before" get those shy kids (and you know who you are) who never say anything about never being there before out into the open one way or the other hope it helps if u need any more suggestions feel free to come see me in game
    Violence isnt the answer to anything, however it may present itself as the only solution within your reach

  18. #38
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    That wall of text is awful, I have to admit, even if you're only trying to be helpful. Split it up a little. I just wanted to say that I've downed Ony several times and I have no problem gathering whelps or keeping aggro. It was this specific situation that I ran into last night which I was having continuous problems with. If the whelps hadn't kept spawning right before a deep breath it would have been as easy as all the other times we downed her.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmaul View Post
    All the strategies I've seen say "the tank should turn her around and bring her to the far wall"

    However, I have yet to see a cogent argument for why NOW in the level 80 version you need to run the risk of getting out of range of healers and having people getting tail swiped while running along with her JUST to tank her at the far wall. Since she stops moving to cast Flame breath, it's actually quite easy for generally competent DPS and heals to overshoot their following distance and be in the wrong position while she's being moved.
    So... funny story. There actually is a VERY good reason to tank her on the back wall. Turns out her knock back will actually knock you OVER the wall and into the middle of the whelp cave even when your back is right up against the wall.

    Found this out last night in an epicly cool battle where for a short time I was tanking Onyxia and 80+ whelps "IN" the whelp cave after my amazing healers followed Ony into the whelp cave to keep healing me. Pulled her out of the cave, then aoe'd the whelps and then... moved her to the back wall and continued as per normal.

  20. #40
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    Found this out last night in an epicly cool battle where for a short time I was tanking Onyxia and 80+ whelps "IN" the whelp cave after my amazing healers followed Ony into the whelp cave to keep healing me. Pulled her out of the cave, then aoe'd the whelps and then... moved her to the back wall and continued as per normal.
    Did ya get ur achievement for it ??
    Violence isnt the answer to anything, however it may present itself as the only solution within your reach

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