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Thread: ToGC Blood Tanking - Techniques (Survival and Threat)

  1. #1

    ToGC Blood Tanking - Techniques (Survival and Threat)

    I've already learned and read about all the specs viable for Blood tanking. However, what I'd really like to learn more about are the following, in the context of tanking as Blood for ToGC10/25:

    1. How to manage your cooldowns (when to use them - VB, RT, IBF, ERW, BT)
    2. How to manage your runes (for which strikes/spells for threat/mitigation)
    3. Balancing hit & expertise if you can't max both for threat (getting the most with what you have)
    4. WotN and Rune Tap

    I'm sorry if this may seem very obvious for everyone else but I'm really trying to learn how to effectively tank as Blood as I'm very new to using the spec. Will really appreciate your input for this.

  2. #2
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    You probably shouldn't have made a thread since reading all the Satorri Post's answer all your questions. =/

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    They are hard questions to answer in general. We can get into specifics of different encounters and I promise that people will do things differently and we can fill a few dozen pages with different specific tactics.

    Questions 2 and 4, as Lectux said, I've written essays about. Question 1 is highly personal and often better for you to find your own way, but if you want to ask specific situations I don't mind sharing my techniques. Question 3 is really more often dictated by gear. Ideally you want to hang out with as close to 8% miss reduction and 6.5% dodge/parry reduction as you can swing, and going over that on expertise is not bad at all (but going over that on hit will not be helpful really). If you find yourself shorter on one, you can use food to patch it up. I usually chomp hit food because I've had trouble staying close to the cap and I've recently traded down some of my hit to get into more 245 gear.
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    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

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    3. I used to do all I can to be at both cap (including using hit/exp food and elixir) back in Naxx. These days, I just do with what I get without any gems, enchants, food or elixir; I am most of the time not at the caps and I still dont have much agro trouble (not more that others tanks, exept our pal, of course).

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    I've actually been chomping hit food because when I drop below the hit cap I really notice the misses. They don't usually hurt my threat badly, but it is a little annoying when you're used to a smooth rotation that you don't have to repeat swings/casts. I'm used to riding the edge on disease durations because Pest never misses. When it can, suddenly I'm wasting more time on reapplying diseases. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #6
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    There are certain times when getting higher hit can proove useful, some of our abilities require spell hit, as opposed to just melee.

    Even with taunt glyphed it will still miss. As an OT, where I need to taunt alot I'll pop a hit pot, to boost it. Mind freeze another ability that requires spell hit.

    Ever see dg hit the floor, I have, on faction champions. Having higher hit will also make blood boil hit harder, when you have to cart adds around like on ignis adds.

    I carry a grocery store of pots and food and use what's needed from fight to fight.

    It would be really nice if tankspot would have a topic on OT strats. Seems with every new content, OTing duties become more technical then the MTs, and very rarely do the strats ever touch base with the OTs duties, from an OTs point of view.

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    Hmmm, some of your information seems a little confused.

    1.) the abilities that use the full spell hit cap are: IT, DC, and Dark Command
    2.) at 8% melee miss reduction you have about 10.5% spell hit reduction (towards a 17% miss cap on a boss, 6% on anything 82 and lower below of course)
    3.) Glyph of Dark Command will only fail to hit cap your taunt if you are well below melee hit cap *and* don't have a Boomkin or Shadow Priest in your group.
    4.) I've never missed Mind Freeze or Blood Boil while melee hit capped, and your hit has no bearing on the damage done by BB, only whether it hits or misses (in theory, I've wondered if it can miss).
    5.) Not that it was mentioned, but as an interesting aside, DnD does not actually use the full spell miss chance. It appears to have a slightly different calculation (probably based on the 1 sec tick rate) that boasts a different miss chance. I suspect it works like Consecration used to (still does?) where only the first tick can miss.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Hmmm, some of your information seems a little confused.

    1.) the abilities that use the full spell hit cap are: IT, DC, and Dark Command
    2.) at 8% melee miss reduction you have about 10.5% spell hit reduction (towards a 17% miss cap on a boss, 6% on anything 82 and lower below of course)
    3.) Glyph of Dark Command will only fail to hit cap your taunt if you are well below melee hit cap *and* don't have a Boomkin or Shadow Priest in your group.
    4.) I've never missed Mind Freeze or Blood Boil while melee hit capped, and your hit has no bearing on the damage done by BB, only whether it hits or misses (in theory, I've wondered if it can miss).
    5.) Not that it was mentioned, but as an interesting aside, DnD does not actually use the full spell miss chance. It appears to have a slightly different calculation (probably based on the 1 sec tick rate) that boasts a different miss chance. I suspect it works like Consecration used to (still does?) where only the first tick can miss.
    Mind freeze can miss, has missed. Any shadowfrost spec dps knows the higher the hit the better the damage on spells, blood boil is no exception to the rule, miss not so much as a partial resist a possibility, like glancing for melee. Taunt misses with glyph hit over 300, it will miss. Only game I have ever played where taunt was so full of fail.

  9. #9
    They should change the "Miss" to "Ignored" for missed taunts

  10. #10
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    When I say never miss BB, I mean, I've logged my raids for months at a time, and it's not a small count, it's a 0% miss, none recorded. Partial resists are a function of resistance, not hit chance, which is virtually non-existent in PvE now.

    If you have over 300 hit rating, and the glyph, and miss a taunt, please record that, as that would actually be impossible by game mechanics.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  11. #11
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    I've seen alot of "impossibilities" in raids. The mobs I seen the most trouble with taunts were ignis adds. When the add spawned I'd taunt, for w/e reason it would run into the raid and I'd taunt a second time, and even with glyph, talent and 345 hit, it's still misses. Death gripping the floor is also "fun". Keep in mind 17% is not the hard cap on a lvl 83 mob.

    Now given my experince with Ulduar bugs, (catch my guild raiding Razorscale sometime), that could be a possibility.

    Check your recount on one of your spells theres low average and high damage, the lowest damage number recorded can be 50% lower than your average damage number if partial resistance didn't exist, neither would your lowest damage numbers. Caster damage has to be reigned in some how.
    Last edited by Spyrit; 10-15-2009 at 06:58 AM.

  12. #12
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    Ah, the Ignis adds I can explain. They have a funny window when they're "spawned" where they don't respond properly to input, be it taunt or otherwise.


    Also, 17% is not the hard cap? Based on what. Clearly you know a lot of things about the game that I've missed. Could you explain how hit chance works?


    The range of damage on spells usually has everything to do with buffs, trinket procs/uses, the built in damage range on spells, and all the other factors that will improve or reduce your damage. It has nothing to do with partial resists.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #13
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    Off-Topic: I've found it's easier to just attack the Ignis adds than to taunt them.

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    Well that explains that, just an uld bug everyone's put up with then. Seems as though adding more hit does fix the problem. I hit blood boil twice to cart them around, and to proc blade barrier before running into the scorch.

    The hard hit cap for spells is 26% according to wowwiki since 3.0. Like expertise, it's a ridiculous amount no one tries to achieve.
    Last edited by Spyrit; 10-16-2009 at 10:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrit View Post
    Well that explains that, just an uld bug everyone's put up with then. Seems as though adding more hit does fix the problem. I hit blood boil twice to cart them around, and to proc blade barrier before running into the scorch.

    The hard hit cap for spells is 26% according to wowwiki since 3.0.

    This is my experience with ignis adds:

    * A taunt is no good unless they close to melee during the (3-second?) fixate period, because they will otherwise re-aggro to a healer -- which is usually what they were making a beeline for in the first place.

    * After they are molten they threat wipe. I think they do it at regular intervals after becoming molten.

    According to wowwiki, spell hit is 17% vs. a lvl 83 mob/raid boss.

    26% sounds more like the hit cap for dual-wielding.
    Last edited by Bashal; 10-16-2009 at 11:07 AM.

  16. #16
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    Dual wielding auto-swings are the only thing with a higher miss chance than a spell. Against a level 83/raid boss, spell miss chance caps at 17% (spell miss mind you), while dual wield auto-swings will have a 27% miss chance (melee miss).

    Reducing the miss chance to zero is not a small chance to miss, it is a non-chance, 0%.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #17
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    Back in the day it used to be that you could only reduce your spell miss chance to 1%, but that time has long since passed much to the joy of casters everywhere. I went through a lot of combat logs and haven't seen a BB miss either, only partial resists.

  18. #18
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    This isn't after they molten that part is dealt with a dg into the water, this is shortly after they have spawned. Without a hit pot I have a hell of a time, with a hit pot, flawlessly done.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyrit View Post
    This isn't after they molten that part is dealt with a dg into the water, this is shortly after they have spawned. Without a hit pot I have a hell of a time, with a hit pot, flawlessly done.
    It's imagined.
    Facts beat anecdotal evidence.

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