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Thread: "You're the offtank"

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Fledern View Post
    The "Main Tank" position as you view it is at this time, more of a slacking position for me. I run in, i work my ass off doing the best threat i can but otherwise it's pretty routine. The offtank is where most of the hard business happens and all those years trudging through trash & adds is what has made me into a good tank. Dont treat your position as a "queue" but rather as a tanking 101 class. (Heroics really dont do much to teach you proper raid tanking).
    Agreed. I find OT'ing generally harder than MT'ing for those exact reasons.

    To OP - you're right about one thing, Pally's do alot more AoE threat than Blood DK's. You might try a Frost build for OT'ing, which currently provides the best AoE DPS for DK's.

  2. #22
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    Raiding is about the raid, you need to be able to cooperate with your co-tanks or it just isn't going to work out in the long run. Off tanking can be one of the most demanding task in a raid, and alot of raid leaders will assign it to the less expirenced/geared tank just because "small adds do less damage", and sometiems thats true, however the adds in some fights control the pace and difficulty of the fight, and holding aggro on multiple targets can be difficult, especially if those adds have to be brought down fast(thinking mistresses on jarraxxus, or drakes on sarth, or ignis adds). the off tank has to be able to get aggro on them fast so the DPS can nuke before they power up the boss and he gibs the main tank. like any fight is the adds or boss are tank and spank, its no fun, if they have some kinky mechanics then it is.

    XT however is a very boring fight for tanks now, you barely get any pummerlers and XT itself doesn't hit that hard. its a tank and spank as far as tanks are concerned

  3. #23
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    My honest opinion is no guild should have a "Main Tank". There should just be tanks.

    I boss tank, I add tank, I dps when not needed to tank. These jobs rotate from fight to fight, sometimes attempt to attempt. There is no set rotation, sometimes we try to fit the tank's skills to the fight.

    Some examples would be Jaraxxus and Anub in ToC. I usually tank Jaraxxus because I can handle the interrupts on my own rather hand the job to a dps who should be focused on dpsing the portals/volcanos/adds/jaraxxus down. Our pally usually gets the adds. I am perfectly capable of grabbing the adds, and have on several occasions in normal mode tanked them and let our pally tank the boss. On Anub I also tend to tank Anub, but I have tanked the adds on several occasions. It depends on who the other tank is. If our feral is the other tank, he'll be on anub and i'll be on adds. If our pally is the other tank, i'll be on Anub generally. Sometimes I'll be DPS and they will tank.

    My point is - any of us can do any of the jobs and we get along better for it, and are better tanks because of it. Having fixed "MT" / "OT" positions gets really old for the OT. I was a MT for a guild back in MC/BWL after rising through the ranks of OT's. Then in BC i joined a guild where i was the eternal OT.. I liked it at first, but it got really, really old and boring - back in BC. With 3.2 I joined my current guild, and love how we rotate amongst ourselves. It helps prevent burnout, and boredom. In ToC, add tanking can be very challenging and is in some cases the tougher job, depending on your class. I find grabbing the adds in 25 Anub alot harder than tanking the boss for example, on my warrior. On my pally its quite a bit easier to be the OT on Anub, for me at least, but it still a higher stress position and more exciting than tanking Anub.

  4. #24
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    Yeah, our guild always switches up the tanking responsibilities on a fight by fight basis so no one tank gets all the fun.

    Some of us get to do certain fights in a certain way more often than others. Like I or one of the other warriors will usually MT Auriaya. Or on Thorim, the warrior tanks usually aren't the ones holding the guys in the arena.

    But generally speaking, we share tanking responsibilities.

  5. #25
    Start messaging the healers and tell them that they would have an easier time healing you than the current MT to get them on your side.

    Once you have the healers on your side, you're golden.

  6. #26
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    Korolan is acutally a pretty easy fight to MT, provided you hold aggro - if I have a pally as the other tank, I'll usually defer. But for Korolan, turn him in the back off the Yellow, and listen for DBM warning "Run away little girl", then just move him a bit clockwise so you're out of the fire, rinse and repeat. I don't like moving him around the back, no sense confusing the other tank.

    If the tanks stay stacked and you use your cooldowns properly, he's a pretty simple fight.

  7. #27
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    Yknow, IMO I even though I usually MT, I would prefer the OT because well.. They do more work. Theyre the ones who pick up the Adds ready to tackle the raid, the ones who take the Hateful strikes, etc. You get my drift? Off tanks work harder, whereas the MT just stays on boss and kites once in a while.. >_>. If I wasnt the MT of my guild, I would actually love to OT, and sometimes I do.

    So, yknow... good job!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnatitus View Post
    The whole MT theory doesnt work as much in Wotlk. You need 2 - 3 geared tanks to make it. Also, tank Sarth 3d the way it was meant to be tanked before people outgeared it. Tell me OT'ing wasnt fun/stressful as hell.

    Plus, tanks tend to make or break the group. Skill > Gear to a point. They may know or trust the other tank more. Keep on keeping on. Read up on your class. You'll get that spotlight soon enough.

    Tanking the drakes in Sarth3d was one of my most favorite tanking encounters in Wrath thus far.
    [2-07-08 08:57 AM] Enelrad: hahaha, that and you're ugly! Ugly tanks tank better
    [3-19-08 02:23 PM] Enelrad: Im really a 12 yr old boy from GA
    Notice: You are currently banned from the shoutbox.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eoika View Post
    Just make up stupid things to do in a fight and it gets a little fun, or maybe thats the little kid inside me.
    -50 DKP if the tanks failed to "/em high five" each other mid tank toss at the twins in front of Thaddeus.

  10. #30
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    I'm in your exact same position. Brand new guild. Brand new to Ulduar 10m. GM has his alt tank and me tanking. He's MTing the bosses, which is fine. I've been OT since my paladin tank in EQ circa 1999. OTing is a lot of fun.

    Well my gear quickly surpassed his alts, because my warrior is my main char and I'm on a lot more than he is. No big deal. I didn't even say anything, because more than I care who tanks, I want to have fun raiding and just raiding with the same fun group of people all the time is half the fun of raiding anyway.

    To make a long story short, we've started to swap me in on some fights as MT because the healers ask for me to tank. I'm easier to heal currently, because I have like 4 or 5k hps on him. But I'm happy either way. OTing is definitely more skilled than MTing, at least in the content we're in right now (there are always exceptions).

    I wouldn't worry about it too much. Best thing you can do for yourself right now is be a rock solid OT. Some people realize how hard it is to find competant OTs, others don't, but if you show your guild you're friggin on the ball, they'll love you for it, especially if they're new.

    Think about it this way. If you stick with that guild, later on down the line you guys will probably pick up some new tanks as people rotate in and out of the guild. You'll be the 'tried and true' tank nobody can live without. The other guy will be the 'newb'. lol If there's one thing I've learned about raid guilds it's that there is always an 'old guard', and being part of a new guild formation (one that lasts anyway) means you get to be one of the 'old guard'. =D Feels real good to be in that position as a tank.

    People look up to you, even if you aren't MT. It's a leadership role, even if a silent one. That's the main reason I like tanking, no matter if it's OT or MT.

  11. #31
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    Honestly, before I OT'd 25 Sarth-3 in a fail raid with everyone sucking down lava walls like it was healthy, I thought OTing was boring, lonely, and sometimes even pointless. OH MY SCRAMBLING, NERVE WRACKING TANK-WET-DREAM INDUCING GOODNESS! Seriously, have half your 25 man raid eat a lava wall on purpose. I was torn between begging for Sarth's dragon breath and proving that I out-skilled my trash gear. Sadly, the end result is that trash gear of mine just didnt hold up worth a hill of beans against that many lava blobs at once.
    ...Thoughts of a philosophical Death Knight...
    If death is the inevitable end of life, is life the inevitable end of undeath?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcc View Post
    Hey guys.
    Was wondering if any of you can help me with this situation.
    I've been 80 a month or so now, geared up, badge loot ect, you know the drill.
    I've found a new guild, hooray, raiding.. but to my suprise (we started ulduar10 today first run) i've been assigned to offtank role despite having the best gear of the 2 of us tanks in there (A paladin with much similar gear, bar 3 or 4 blue boe's from the ah for def cap, and myself as a dk)

    My stats currently (incase armory doesnt work) taken from the armory UB:
    HP:32601
    Def: 547
    Dodge: 27.36%
    Parry: 17.71%
    Spec: Standard blood tank spec with personal taste but all the key talents.

    Maybe im missing something here, But it took me by suprise to be asked to take adds rather than a boss after being told DK's do great add tanking with death and decay.
    Call me old fashioned, but i have always been under the impression that paladins were/are the best at multi add tanking since the hyjal days.

    Anyways beyond all that, if im doomed to offtanking, what do you guys do to find the fun in it, i personally cant find any fun in anything i did today, XT deconstructor had a measley 2 adds spawn i had to pick up, and the rest was filled with mindless attacking of the boss with poor dps in the meantime, and arauya(spelling?) was just as boring.
    Should be moving on to the iron council soonish and further after that hopefully, maybe more thought provoking offtanking further into ulduar?

    I guess there are plenty of you in this possition as the offtank, sights set on the MT possition which is so close, but just out of reach.
    I'd like to hear some of your experiences and thoughts if possible.

    Thanks!
    Maybe you're just off tanking because you're the new guy, I personally don't think death knights are that great at off tanking with that mindset as DnD is a really over rated dk move, it has a big cd and wastes alot of runes thus limiting your ability to hold threat with diseases and such if used more than once per standard trash pull, if you want something good at aoe I would say a pally is defintely better, or even a warrior actually, I mean their tc has a much shorter cd and doesn't take up half their runes err.. I mean rage or anything like that, actually warriors are a poor choice for OT imo because they need to be taking damage from the start of the fight to pick up threat due to their rage, but yeah dnd spam is not very smart, lest you want to join the ranks of the dreaded "Death tards". The best way to tank on a dk is open with dnd to pick up threat, but hold threat by keeping diseases up and using your aoe and single target spells.

    It may be your spec as well, Blood is looked down upon for tanking because it is the worst spec for generating and holding threat. It's not bad for threat in general per say, but compared to frost and unholy tanks it doesn't generate the same level of threat.

  13. #33
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    Generally I find the OT has a lot more to do than the MT.
    Pretty much every Totc I'm picking up adds, in heroic 25 we rotate on certain bosses for cooldowns.

    Sure some fights you will have nothing to do, but on the plus side if it all goes pear shaped and the MT dies then you're the one who gets to save the day
    The OT position is just as important as MT, because if those little buggers are running all over the place mashing their fists into healers faces the raid would be dead before you could yell "PORK CHOP SANDWICHES!"

    Don't feel down if you're not the one everyone see's getting hit by the boss. I've tanked pretty much everything so far from Wrath (even some in BC on a rogue >_>) except from 25Totc heroic past twins, and OT generally has more to do, more to focus on and a bigger responsibility than the MT. If I want an easy ride I just call dibs on the boss and sit there drooling a bit half asleep.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demianu27 View Post
    Start messaging the healers and tell them that they would have an easier time healing you than the current MT to get them on your side.

    Once you have the healers on your side, you're golden.
    This is one of the worst and most destructive pieces of advice given here, and I urge you not to go down this path.

    Creating needless drama by flexing your e-peen and degrading other members of your team is almost invariably the worst thing you can do in a situation.

    If you're not happy offtanking, you may not be fit for tanking period. Frankly in my guild, if the rest of my tanks aren't ok with tanking as fight mechanics and best solutions for my guild dictate, I'll find new tanks.

  15. #35
    Any tank can be a MT, its just that paladins are much much more easy to heal, and they wont die if a healer fails in any battle due to their cd's and talents. Sometimes OT does more than the MT, if you haven't notice that already, MT its just stand in front of the boss a voila! an OT has to do diferent things with adds and stuff like that. Also get some DPS gear, its useful for some Uld hm (so you don't get bored while doing dps in a 1 tank fight (g.e. yogg +0k, vezax, hodir, mimir). In ToC you will realise that both tanks are indeed needed and do a much important role than in uld.
    Last edited by ghromorth; 10-26-2009 at 06:42 AM.

  16. #36
    Last week I pugged with a raiding guild in an Ulduar 10 run for my first time in there. I explained to them before-hand that I had never been to this raid, and I would need a little guidance and explanation on what to do, so they immediately assigned me to the role of OT. While it doesn't sound as glorified as "MAIN" tank, I do agree that a tank is a tank, and your role as OT is just as important as MT. Yeah on some boss fights it can be boring (especially Hodir if your offspec is holy and you have no gear for it!) but for the most part its great fun. Ignus was great fun for me...it get's really entertaining when the raid doesn't kill the brittle golems in time and you are moving around 2 or 3 at a time

    Also agree with a few of the above posts that being a so called "MT" is sort of an unspoken leadership role. While you may not be the raid leader, you still are the one leading everybody into battle, making sure pulls go right doing your best to survive so the raid can as well.

    To say the least...being an OT is about being competent, observant and all around lending a helping hand. Don't look at it as being second best because that's not the case...you are just as important as the healers and the dps in the raid as without you there would be a whole lot of FoF wipes, and none too happy raiders.
    Noob Prot Pally - Armory

  17. #37
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    I thought of OT as something "secondary", too, until OS, when I didn't have a pally to tank the adds. It proved much more interesting, although nerve-wracking, as I'm Warr, and really had to use some of my more "rusty" abilities in that role, like Intervene, to keep them all rounded up...especially since the dps thought flame walls were "really cool", and would stand there watching as they rolled over on them! Thank god the healer knew his stuff, as I could rush to him in time to miss the walls, myself!

    For that fight, now, I'll have to be bribed to be MT!! Ok, not really, as moving Sarth and positioning him is also enough of a challenge for this tank...and, really, it's whatever the situation calls for...
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

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