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Thread: No More Block Rating..?

  1. #1
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    No More Block Rating..?

    I was wondering why there is no more Block Rating on the newer gear/t9? How is this going to Effect warriors and paladins? Is block rating useless now? Seems that all the newer gear has Block Value....but no more BR..Whats up with this? Anyone know? Our block rating is gonna go way down.. what to do...?

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    Block Rating really isn’t a great stat for Prot Pally's (or warriors for that matter). For the discussion I’m going to assume you know about the attack table http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table if you don’t.

    Basically the first thing to fall off the chart after we reach 102.4% combined avoidance and block rating (this is were hit gets pushed off the table and we become unhittable) is block rating. So if you think about a normal set we get 30% from holy shield already so at an averaged avoidance level of say 55% we are already sitting at 85% towards the unhittable cap. Even in a set devaluing SBR you will generally sit at around 15% so that give us a total of 100% already. So basically any SBR will be wasted because it will fall of the end of the table.

    I haven't even mentioned Redoubt

    TL|DR it falls off the attack table to quickly to really care about.

  3. #3
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    I've found the simplest way to get around the lack of SBR is macroing shield block in with shield slam (10 sec of over 100% block rating, 30 sec off, 10 more sec on, etc).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jworley View Post
    I've found the simplest way to get around the lack of SBR is macroing shield block in with shield slam (10 sec of over 100% block rating, 30 sec off, 10 more sec on, etc).
    Pally thread champ.
    Roll with the punches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irat View Post
    Pally thread champ.

    I don't see anything specifically mentioning paladins in the original post....Champ.

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    Ironic that they'd finally pick this tier to kill block rating... when it's the first tier that's had a fight that is well tackled by stacking it. Creative use of game mechanics, but still.

    The fact that my Heroic Anub'arak set is built primarily of Ulduar and Naxx pieces amuses the heck out of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Numpty View Post
    I don't see anything specifically mentioning paladins in the original post....Champ.
    Top of the page in the title bar. There's also a tag for it in the forums on the left of the subject. It's not front row center, but it's there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zothor View Post
    Ironic that they'd finally pick this tier to kill block rating... when it's the first tier that's had a fight that is well tackled by stacking it. Creative use of game mechanics, but still.

    The fact that my Heroic Anub'arak set is built primarily of Ulduar and Naxx pieces amuses the heck out of me.
    You're using block rating gear to MT heroic Anub, or for add duty? I'm curious because I'd love another chance to break out the "you can't touch this" set since tanking zombie chow on Gluth.

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    I wouldn't sign the death certificate for block rating/block value on raiding gear just yet. Blizzard knows they have a problem with gear inflation and the ToC loot is specifically lacking in hit and block rating. I suspect this was done on purpose so we'd have other area's to 'improve'. My guess is the Ice Crown gear will be of such a high iLvL we'll see that hit and block rating return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zothor View Post
    Ironic that they'd finally pick this tier to kill block rating... when it's the first tier that's had a fight that is well tackled by stacking it. Creative use of game mechanics, but still.

    The fact that my Heroic Anub'arak set is built primarily of Ulduar and Naxx pieces amuses the heck out of me.

    Ya... all the gear that I passed up or deleted... TURNS OUT IT'S USEFUL. I had to run a PuG naxx last night. Lucky for me every single piece of block rating gear dropped except the bracers, which I can live without. I'm a happy camper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belak View Post
    You're using block rating gear to MT heroic Anub, or for add duty? I'm curious because I'd love another chance to break out the "you can't touch this" set since tanking zombie chow on Gluth.
    The zombie chow set is monstrous for add tanking. Unbelievably monstrous.

    I have heard rumors that with a best-available block capped set, you can solo tank Anub heroic 10. Which is just NUTS. I have yet to see this confirmed.

  12. #12
    What your talking about is solo tanking heroic 25 anub's ADDS, which is what all the fuss about block sets is even about lately. And yes, it's how most guilds are doing the fight, with a warrior tanking adds in naxx/ulduar gear.

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    BR vs No BR

    In Response to the question on why Block Rating is not seen on teir 9:

    Legend: BR = Block Rating BV = Block Value

    One of our previous posters was correct when he/she talked about gear inflation. However, it is not that we will see a drastic turn back to BR but rather that we will see less of it as Item Level and "Itemization" increases. As previously mentioned the block cap is 102.4%; thus any BR for a tank who is above 102.4% is a total waste. To some peoples' surprise any decently geared Naxx tank will be at or above 102.4% and thus they will be block capped.

    For Warriors BR is not a very big concern. It is seen off and on in their gear but it really does not make that big of a difference for the way it scales with Warriors; so long as they are already a decent geared tank with plenty of dodge and parry.

    For Paladins, however, the effect is very important. Almost every well geared Paladin tank that has Naxx and or Ulduar gear will be well over capped in block. This is due to a high amount of BR and BV gear on their tier sets. The call for concern, nevertheless is not the Block Rating itself but the other stat that has typically come along with it, Block Value.

    Becuase Block Value is not a very important stat for most warrior tanks it is often overlooked by most Paladins. However, BV could arguably be the most important stat for a good Paladin tank.

    Paladins are specifically designed to be "consistent" tanks. What I mean by consistent is that they take a steady flow of damage. Warriors have always been built on a well balanced amount of Avoidence. While this fact makes Warriors very good MTs for certain encounters; it also makes them unpredictible and reliable only on chance. A warrior may dodge 3 attacks then take 3-4 in the face. You never really know what is going to happen.

    Paladins on the other hand are designed around having less actual Avoidence in order to create a greater consitency with thier damage intake. This makes them perfect for tanks that either hit really fast or hit very hard but slow. That way a healer can always know when to pop a heal.

    Block Value is the most important stat for this consistency. This is due to the fact that a Paladin at 102.4% will always dodge, block, or parry his attacker.

    BV scales a Paladins Shield of Righteousness, Holy Shield, and the actual amount blocked. A well stacked Paladin can block twice the amount of thier Warrior counter parts. And while that may mean Paladins may take more damage over time ( Due to a Warrior dodge/parry ing a move) it also means that the healers know exactly when to pop a heal. BV = Effective Health for a Paladin and only for a Paladin.

    Now, nearly all the gear we have seen so far that carries BV also carries BR. So while BV is an amazing stat for Paladins it has also come at a price, Paladins must waste some of their BR in order to have BV.

    The individual who talked about gear inflation was correct. Except mostly in the reverse. Gear from Heroics, Naxx, and most of Ulduar were set with BR abd BV. As we move up the later and gear gets better the "Itemization" will also get better.

    One thing about item level. Item level is simply based on the amount of general characteristics the item has. In example: An item can have dodge, parry, and hit. This item has an overall score of 100 becuase of the amount of dodge, parry, and hit. However, all three stats are wieghted the same. So even if, parry was the best of all 3 stats; all three stats are weighted the same. Item level is completely different from "Itemization".

    Itemization is the particular type of characteristics an Item has. In the examples shown above with tier 9 vs other tiers below it we see that Itemization is getting better as BR dissapears. Blizzard designed the game so that the best "Itemized" peices would be delivered at the end of the game. No one wants to see dodge, block, and parry just increase the whole time. As we near patch 3.3 the gear is finally starting to display its better stats. This has been done slowly for the entire game. In example the tier 8 Paladin gloves have BV with no BR.

    So for the most part BR has its uses up to 102.4% but after that it is wasteful. But BV is a great stat. In addition to the EH; a well stacked Paladin with BV can almost never be beaten on a threat chart. BV is not only threat. It is also Effective health, remember that.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evonine View Post
    I was wondering why there is no more Block Rating on the newer gear/t9? How is this going to Effect warriors and paladins? Is block rating useless now? Seems that all the newer gear has Block Value....but no more BR..Whats up with this? Anyone know? Our block rating is gonna go way down.. what to do...?
    Yes,

    Block rating for a paladin at this level is totally useless. With the new Libram and full raid buffs you are pushing 102.4 with avoidance, block from def, and Holy Shield alone.

    Warriors,

    Sorta, I still say because they cant reach 102.4 then its still good, but most gear and will always gear avoidance anyway.

  15. #15
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    With the change to the heroic 25 anub adds you cannot solo tank all 4 anymore

    But the difference between being in an unhittable blockset taking 0-9k damage and being a squishy dk and eating 16k per hit is huge

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ryofu View Post
    With the change to the heroic 25 anub adds you cannot solo tank all 4 anymore

    But the difference between being in an unhittable blockset taking 0-9k damage and being a squishy dk and eating 16k per hit is huge
    You most certainly can (warrior, at least )

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zothor View Post
    Top of the page in the title bar. There's also a tag for it in the forums on the left of the subject. It's not front row center, but it's there.
    The OP says 'how will this effect Warriors and Paladins'. Thus we can assume it was ment as a discussion about both, but that he plays a Paladin.

    Block Rating is a dump stat for the most part. Block Value is more useful, mainly for larger Shield Slams and increased mitigation against trash.

  18. #18
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    I was going to ignore this post, but there's too much misinformation in this thread already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    To some peoples' surprise any decently geared Naxx tank will be at or above 102.4% and thus they will be block capped.
    This is mathematically inaccurate. What I assume you're referring to is that any decently geared Naxx tank will be block capped with holy shield or shieldblock up. To actually block cap passively (something many of us are collecting gear for at the moment) requires over half a dozen pieces of WotLK block gear, and stacking avoidance/block rating to get there. In addition, the original post was about block RATING, and a ridiculous amount of this monologue was spent on block VALUE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    For Paladins, however, [Block Rating] is very important. Almost every well geared Paladin tank that has Naxx and or Ulduar gear will be well over capped in block.
    This is exactly why block rating is generally NOT important for paladins... your paladin information is all mixed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    The call for concern, nevertheless is not the Block Rating itself but the other stat that has typically come along with it, Block Value.

    Becuase Block Value is not a very important stat for most warrior tanks it is often overlooked by most Paladins. However, BV could arguably be the most important stat for a good Paladin tank.
    No. Just... no. Block value's not a BAD stat, but it's nowhere near Strength for threat, or Stamina, Armor, Dodge or even Parry for avoidance. You don't need to skip pieces of gear just because they have block value on them, but it's one of the worst available stats on 90% of fights because bosses swing too slowly and too hard for it to represent a significant percentage reduction. Even the HIGHEST (T9 level) block value pieces have less than 300 BV, with bosses swinging for well over 20k. You're talking about mitigating less than 2% of each swing, in a situation where you get overhealed by more than 2% almost every time damage comes in. It's just not very valuable compared to your alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    A warrior may dodge 3 attacks then take 3-4 in the face. You never really know what is going to happen.
    Paladins and warriors have almost the exact same avoidance level in current gear levels. A paladin is every bit as likely to take 3-4 hits without avoiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    Block Value is the most important stat for this consistency. This is due to the fact that a Paladin at 102.4% will always dodge, block, or parry his attacker.
    While it's true that a paladin will dodge, block or parry almost every incoming hit, Block value is in no way the most important stat for smoothing out a paladin's incoming damage. For ANY tank, ARMOR is the most important stat for smoothing incoming damage. Why? Because armor is a PERCENT reduction, so as boss damage gets bigger armor continues to get more valuable, whereas block value is a static number. This is the big issue with block scaling that has been literally everywhere in the tanking issues community. It's why Block is OP against fast swingers and UP against big hitters. Armor can't be missed. It doesn't rely on a chance. It's up when you're stunned, or if your back is turned for some reason, or in EVERY non magic damage situation (something block won't help you with either). This is why armor and stamina are used to calculate your true effective health. Many people want to use block value in EH for paladins because they're block capped, but this blatantly ignores the fact that the POINT of EH as an idea is to consider a worst case scenario. In a worst case scenario You're STUNNED.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    BV scales a Paladins Shield of Righteousness, Holy Shield, and the actual amount blocked. A well stacked Paladin can block twice the amount of thier Warrior counter parts. And while that may mean Paladins may take more damage over time ( Due to a Warrior dodge/parry ing a move) it also means that the healers know exactly when to pop a heal. BV = Effective Health for a Paladin and only for a Paladin.
    No, no, a thousand times again no. As I explained a second ago, block value simply isn't true EH. In the situations that exist in current content when tanks take the most dangerous damage (Heroic Icehowl, Heroic Gormok, Heroic Anub'arak), block value doesn't help you at all. Only on Heroic Valkyrs will block value help you in a maintanking set, and even then since your'e not going to get the boss hasting on you more than twice in the fight, a well prepared tank has cooldowns ready. Meanwhile, a WELL stacked Paladin vs a WELL stacked warrior actually blocks -less- than the warrior due to Critical Block. Critical block multiplies the defensive value of block for warriors in a way a paladin can't counter, because warriors can use gear and shieldblock to block cap and a paladin can't use ANYTHING to get access to critical block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    Now, nearly all the gear we have seen so far that carries BV also carries BR. So while BV is an amazing stat for Paladins it has also come at a price, Paladins must waste some of their BR in order to have BV.
    Did you even read the OP? The original post is about the FACT, let me repeat FACT, that none of the T9 content has any block rating on it. Quite a bit has block value. Put frankly, BV and BR are no longer tied in the current tier of content. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenophase View Post
    So for the most part BR has its uses up to 102.4% but after that it is wasteful. But BV is a great stat. In addition to the EH; a well stacked Paladin with BV can almost never be beaten on a threat chart. BV is not only threat. It is also Effective health, remember that.
    It is almost impossible to hit a passive 102.4% unhittability rating by accident - it requires that you stack defense and shield block rating instead of stamina and pure threat or avoidance, something virtually no rational tank does except for gimmick encounters.

    While block does remain a good threat stat on gear that it exists without BR, I repeat AGAIN because you kept hammering on this bad advice, that it can't be safely considered effective health because, once again, the idea behind effective health is to determine how much damage needs to come in in a WORST CASE SCENARIO before you die. And in a worst case scenario you'll be incapacitated.

    If a paladin is having threat issues, which is rare even after the nerf, there are plentttttyyyyy of ways to buff a paladin's threat that are more effective point for point than block value as far as compared to the compromises of overall survivability.

    To those reading this post, I apologize if it came off as rude or obnoxious. It probably was. But the amount of bad advice in the post I dissected was absolutely stunning, and I think when most of us come to Tankspot looking for community advice, we like to feel we can trust it.

    Maybe it's my hero complex that kept me from leaving that post untouched, and if anyone was significantly offended I apologize. But I felt like it had to be done.
    Last edited by Zothor; 10-05-2009 at 07:35 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zothor View Post
    As I explained a second ago, block value simply isn't true EH.
    I'm going to sidetrack this discussion slightly to say thank God I've finally found someone on Tankspot who agrees with me on this point! I was beginning to think I was going mad...



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zothor View Post
    It is almost impossible to hit a passive 102.4% unhittability rating by accident - it requires that you stack defense and shield block rating instead of stamina and pure threat or avoidance, something virtually no rational tank does except for gimmick encounters.
    For someone that just finished getting my unhittable set together I can confirm (for Warriors at least) that it is completely impossible to go over 102.4% (unhittable) by accident. In my block set I am 102.8% unbuffed now and it required every single piece of gear to be added specifically for that set (except my Blood & Glory weapon which is just plain secksy). Other then my weapons I don't think any piece translates over into my normal tanking set, the stat distribution is simply too different.
    http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=14561522

    There are VERY few fights where my block set is actually useful but it sure is entertaining on those few fights

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