Warrior Tank: Stam vs TPS/Hit & Exp gemming?

[Nïobe]

Hey guys,

I've been looking around for threads that address this but I haven't been able to find anything (direct me if there is already something out there for this - I could be blind!).

Anyways, I love my stamina. I know that having high HP is not going to make me a better tank, but I also do not want to have someone pick X tank class over me because they have a higher health pool than me (which seems to happen to me at 35K unbuffed).

I've been taking a look at some of the warrior tanks on my server, and I don't see any of them meeting their expertise/hit caps (which I like to keep capped, although my hit cap isn't met at the moment, because I am sitting here wondering if I should skip it to buff my hp). I also don't find myself to be rage starved or struggling for threat, (this right now would be because my hit/expertise have been pretty good at the moment, but I am thinking of cutting them bit by bit for stamina..)

Is it safe to gem for Stam over TPS/hit & exp caps?

[Nïobe]

An here is my toon:
WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

[Caudates]

The answer no one likes to hear: It depends.

If you're doing the normal 25-man toc and living isn't an issue then sure, hit/exp in your gear is dandy. But if you're attempting progression like in 25 h-toc then surviving is going to be priority, drop some threat stats and get more survival stats.

[Norik]

Right now my hit cap is the lowest I have ever had it. Not seeing much of a difference at this time. (Ulduar 25 and ToC normal)
My expertise is floating around 30 something which I like and Im only about 2k HP above what you are right now.
Honestly in my opinion no one on this board would be able to answer your question better then yourself.
How well geared are your healers? Is your DPS on your level or above? If your not dying frequently and your DPS isnt pulling off of you then I would say you are fine.

[Thad]

with hit food + hit racial buff you can get by just fine with a low ammount of hit.

[Nïobe]

I'm definitely a tank aimed for progression.

Just last last night we were at Anub'Arak in 25 ToC, and the MT role was given to whomever has the highest health pool (which is fair, he does hit hard). But I also get a little discouraged because, being a warrior tank, you fair better with single boss targets than running around tanking bugs.

My aim is survivability, but I just wanted to know if I would suffer overall if I kick out some hit/exp

[Nïobe]

with hit food + hit racial buff you can get by just fine with a low ammount of hit.

Yeah, I am eating my Wormsteaks and the Snappers for tps buffs

[Apollux]

I'm definitely a tank aimed for progression.

Just last last night we were at Anub'Arak in 25 ToC, and the MT role was given to whomever has the highest health pool (which is fair, he does hit hard).

Sorry, but IMHO that is flawed reasoning. Overall HP should be a consideration of course but so should avoidance (Dodge, Parry, Armor). Someone can gem all Stam and be a big mana sponge.

[Nïobe]

I also see people gemming just purely stamina. No socket bonuses/etc. They only gem to meet their defense cap, but if there is a socket, a pure stamina goes in there. I’m kinda worried about doing that because it seems a little goofy to me? Is that what a survival tank would do?

[Wolven]

I do a fair bit of pure stam gemming because often the socket bonus is not all that exciting when compared to putting in a 30 stam gem. However, with the decreased amount of hit rating on TOC gear I am finding that putting in a 10hit&15stam gem for yellow sockets to be more desirable as I am now down to 166 hit rating. Expertise gems on the other hand have become increasingly less valuable since there are so many items loaded with expertise that I am sitting at 34 expertise in my EH set.

In my TPS set I am hit and expertise capped but I really only wear that set for farm clears where survivability is not an issue. I certainly would not use that set for progression since keeping my threat ceiling above the DPS is a secondary concern to staying alive.

[Caudates]

But I also get a little discouraged because, being a warrior tank, you fair better with single boss targets than running around tanking bugs.

You get to fly around with charge/intercept/intervene. Warriors are perfect for tanking bugs. I personally take the responsibility of doing so because we're so much better at "running around" than other classes. Not to mention all your prot stuns help to mitigate bug damage.

I also see people gemming just purely stamina. No socket bonuses/etc. They only gem to meet their defense cap, but if there is a socket, a pure stamina goes in there. I’m kinda worried about doing that because it seems a little goofy to me? Is that what a survival tank would do?

Well it depends on the socket bonus. For instance if a helm has a yellow socket with bonus of 12 stam, placing a 10def/15 stam gem= 10def/27stam. If you put a 30 stam gem you lose 10 defense for 3 stam. Not a good deal.

[Hamburglar]

Sorry, but IMHO that is flawed reasoning. Overall HP should be a consideration of course but so should avoidance (Dodge, Parry, Armor). Someone can gem all Stam and be a big mana sponge.

Stamina never fails, avoidance often does.

[Teslin]

Stamina never fails, avoidance often does.

58k stamina can be torn through mighty fast with no avoidance. I have the least amount of HP of any of the tanks in my guild but am a favorite for our healers because they're not having to throw big heals my way continually.

A great thread on the importance of expertise:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...expertise.html

[dadricvertanis]

Consistant higher damage in some cases is favorable to inconsistant spike damage. This is why a lot of progression minded tanks stack stamina over defensive stats.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to stack avoidance stats, I really would. The problem is that I will get hit for 25k twice, back to back and live with stam. If I stack avoidance and armor, I'll get hit for 24k back to back less frequently, but when I do, I'm dead. I'd rather be a drain on mana than dead. My healers make due and say they'd rather spend mana than worry about a bad avoidance streak 2 shotting me.

Also, from some perspective, more health means more buffer time for healers to get your health back up before you die.

Avoidance is nice over a long run but its so bad when it fails.

[nethervoid]

IMO your threat meter should determine when you can stack stam over hit/exp. Right now I'm WAY ahead on the threat meter, so I've been stacking as much stam as possible and not worrying about my hit or exp.

[Casper7526]

Personally, I stack quite a bit of stamina, I have 100 hit / 35 expertise and 41k unbuffed (25% dodge 20% parry 16% block)

But like all above me said, it's really all about preference of yourself and your guild.

As some healers have confessed, they honestly would like it alot better if bosses would hit more often and less hard to an extent, they want healing to be a game of big crits and constant heals just like tanks and dps have it while dpsing. They don't wanna go "cast"...."relax while tank dodges"...."OH BIG SPIKE" "CAST!", I know on my healer I would rather just steady cast, much more fun that way.

And don't forget, expertise is a survival stat as well as a tps stat, as your gear improves your expertise will stay high (which is really good), your hit will drop sure, but honestly, the only thing I care ALOT about hit for... is taunts...and theres a glyph for that...

[Nïobe]

I will pay more attention to my tps tonight and see if I am ahead of everyone else. I made a couple changes to my gear last night, so I'll try out what I have now and see how I do (I have never really had issues with holding a target in the past). After that I will access where I stand and then either go back to more tps stats or start stacking more stamina.

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions

[Reev]

You get to fly around with charge/intercept/intervene. Warriors are perfect for tanking bugs. I personally take the responsibility of doing so because we're so much better at "running around" than other classes. Not to mention all your prot stuns help to mitigate bug damage.

Agreed. Also, the block mechanic is fairly useful as well, since last I heard, block mitigates the damage before the +%damage modifier is added to the tank, making block very powerful for tanking those bugs. I usually have the druid in my guild tank AA while I and another warrior or pally tank the bugs.