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Thread: Shield Specialization... why?!

  1. #41
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    Oh and also, opinions on elixirs and pots:

    Even if I'm not at or above 101.6% unhittable, should I still use str food and str elixirs or go ahead and use agi stuff?
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  2. #42
    the build looks pretty solid other than, i am personally not a big fan of shield wall spec and glyph for that fight. for a few reasons, i glyph taunt mainly because i have almost zero hit rating in that set and also i pick up adds myself instead of MD/tricks on all of them. Some guild have rogues go out and tricks the near 2 or far 2 or w/e, and i quickly learned that healers would get quickly gibbed from my taunt missing or w/e eventually we placed them properly based on permafrost positiong to help avoid that but taunt glyph will save lives. and the 3 ap also makes a difference, very minimal but yet still 3 ap that you can have reduced.

    few more things..

    DO NOT REAPPLY COMMANDING SHOUT so that it will go into phase 3 with it on everyone. i don't spec booming voice for that VERY reason, it fucks up the timmers on when i refresh it. I put it up in the beginning of the fight, then RIGHT when he comes up after the burrow when we all stack up, then it will fade off just as we transition him to 30%. If commanding shout is up on the 30% turn that is A LOT of extra healing that is done to him initally that can easily be avoided. The less time you spend in phase 3 the greater chance you have to succeed imo. Its just like yogg zero, the fight begins at phase 3 the rest is boring and normal, very repetive.

    however also keep in mind with the glyphing and specing has a lot to do on your strat on it. we dont have 2 rogues run out to tricks them because we like to maximize our dps to the absolute highest (brut force our way through it). Focused rage is almost pointless for your role in that encounter. When you tank adds you have an UNLIMITED amount of rage, literally lol.

    and glad to help out =D i'm bored 90% of the time anyways i just read these forums lol
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Oh and also, opinions on elixirs and pots:

    Even if I'm not at or above 101.6% unhittable, should I still use str food and str elixirs or go ahead and use agi stuff?
    I sit at 102.4 just because of the random WTF pwnd that has happend and can't quite explain why... its really odd imo

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_kgxY35HF8]YouTube - Rush vs Anub'arak Heroic[/ame]

    there is a link to our kill vid if you are interested in watching it, its my PoV and our priest PoV in phase 3. it may help a bit..
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

  4. #44
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    So agi food/elixirs then?

    I'll watch the video when I get home from work.

    We do have 2 rogues to pull in with FoK spec, so that's what we've been using.

    Ya... I don't run commanding, we have a fury warrior spec'd into it that does. We're letting commanding fade and have everyone click off fort in phase 3.

    From what I've heard you can minimize the random gibs with shield wall/trinkets. If you have both the autoblocker and lav's trinket, then first wave you can use blocker, second wave use lav's trinket, 3rd wave use shield wall, rinse, repeat.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  5. #45
    yes on the agi food/elixirs

    also you are probably just going to want to single target buff the tanks with fort.. i personally don't trust EVERYONE in the raid to click off fort if its called for because of "lag" (i still lol at that excuse) or just someone not paying attention. It isn't needed in phase 1 or 2 at all nobody should be taking damage other than the 2 tanks and any pen cold targets (which should have no problem with getting healed).

    and what you have heard yes... but what actually happens no... i had my 1!!!! shield wall running while i almost died, and it was in phase 3. i looked at the combat logs and it didn't make sense at all. not a single add got behind or to the side of me i actually had to pop last stand too even though i didn't want to in phase 3 it was kinda necessary. it was the final adds that came up before we were about to kill him and i ALWAYS save my shield wall for that one set of adds just to make sure i dont die. did it save my life with a few other things yes... but it still didnt prevent it.

    also note that autoblocker and lav will ALWAYS be up for adds if it is 1 or the other 1 is guaranteed up, there are only 2 sets per burrow phase, then the one you used first will be back up after he comes up the first time. then same for beginning of phase 3.

    edit* also if your rogues are actually capable of understanding the concept of going out to tricks the adds then by all means go for it but ours love to dps dps dps dps till their fingers fall off /sigh long story behind that but anywho... yeah just varries from guild to guild on the strat and specs this is just what worked best for us.
    Last edited by Badga; 09-30-2009 at 08:38 AM.
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

  6. #46
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    Ours have an obsession with FoK, so if it means tricksing me and going out but they get to FoK earlier they're happy =P.

    Alright... well thanks tons for all the advice man. Hopefully you'll see <Roll Initiative> up there soon amongst the ranks of those that have killed H-Anub.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  7. #47
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    Hey, this is.. kinda off topic, but ah well. What block neck are you guys talking about? The one from 5-man ToC or is there another one from a raid?

  8. #48
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    There's one off Kologarn in Ulduar, at least I assume that's what they're talking about.

    Since I'm posting I might as well update:

    Thanks all for the advice! I'm currently logged out in my block gear (I think) and we did really well last night, I'm at about 103.6% unhittable (which I realize is over, but I've noticed too sometimes I'll just get randomly gibbed, happened once or twice last night in 26 attempts). We started to get to phase 3 consistantly, our best attempt was only 22% though. That fight must be a healer's nightmare, lol. I think we've got a good shot at downing it next week.

    I do have a question though:

    Threat: I'm doing over 5k dps now (you can look up the Roll Initiative parses of WoL if you'd like) and I put Vigalence on one of the mages. I'm spec'd into imp cleave and tab target through them hitting shield slam, revenge, and sunder if someone gets too high on one. When we pull I have a druid not spec'd into subtley behind me, I get the 2 on the sides tricks'd to me and one of the back ones MD'd and I taunt the other one. I pretty much just let the adds come to me. I tclap pretty much immediately and start cleaving like crazy, I have cleave bound to pretty much everything. However, once the living bombs start going off and rogues fok aggro catches up about 6-7 seconds in, I'll randomly lose threat on some. How can this be remedied. I've been trying to not use shockwave for the pallies to holy wrath, but I think I might need to for threat. Is it gonna mess up the shadowstrike timers at all? I just figure if I start shockwaving at the last second of Shield Block I should be fine, they're usually almost dead by then anyways. Is there something else I should change? Or are our ranged dps just insane?
    Last edited by Aggathon; 10-05-2009 at 09:30 AM.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  9. #49
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    Woo, a bit off-topic but downed heroic anub 10 man last night wearing my sbr/sbv set which had me around 91% (best I could achieve with my gear options) miss/dodge/parry/block with around 1550 sbv. I took ~ 100k damage tanking adds the entire fight. 100k... I have over 45k buffed, that's a JOKE. blocking and likewise shield spec is always useful when trash is involved, especially anub'arak trash.

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  10. #50
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    Ya, it's a joke in 10 mans. Fully raid buffed I'm around 36.6k HPS and like 2.7K BV (not counting trinkets)
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I'm at about 103.6% unhittable (which I realize is over, but I've noticed too sometimes I'll just get randomly gibbed, happened once or twice last night in 26 attempts).
    Are you talking about buffed or unbuffed 103.6%? Your stats versus mine (unbuffed) are:
    Defense: 584 vs Defense: 608 = 24 def lower
    Dodge: 23.25% vs Dodge: 24.02% = .77% lower
    Parry: 18.81% vs Parry: 22.98% = 4.17% lower
    Block: 47.8% vs Block: 49.12% = 1.32% lower

    In my set unbuffed I am at about 102.8%. I am higher in every single category however you say you are almost a full percentage point higher then me? Make sure you are using a version of Satrina's macro to check your unhittable percentage, that might be the reason that you get 'randomly gibbed' because you may not actually be over the 102.4% mark.

    /run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))
    The other possibility could be positioning, I entertained myself with my unhittable set soloing old content and really noticed how important it is to keep things in front of you. Unhittable from the front turns into DESTROYED if something gets behind you.

  12. #52
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    That's 103.6 fully buffed. So Kings, HoW, MotW, Agi Pot, Defense pot, Agi food, etc. It's like 100.07% unbuffed.

    Also, I think that's the version of the macro I'm using. And you only need 101.6 against level 82 mobs.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Threat: I'm doing over 5k dps now (you can look up the Roll Initiative parses of WoL if you'd like) and I put Vigalence on one of the mages. I'm spec'd into imp cleave and tab target through them hitting shield slam, revenge, and sunder if someone gets too high on one. When we pull I have a druid not spec'd into subtley behind me, I get the 2 on the sides tricks'd to me and one of the back ones MD'd and I taunt the other one. I pretty much just let the adds come to me. I tclap pretty much immediately and start cleaving like crazy, I have cleave bound to pretty much everything. However, once the living bombs start going off and rogues fok aggro catches up about 6-7 seconds in, I'll randomly lose threat on some. How can this be remedied. I've been trying to not use shockwave for the pallies to holy wrath, but I think I might need to for threat. Is it gonna mess up the shadowstrike timers at all? I just figure if I start shockwaving at the last second of Shield Block I should be fine, they're usually almost dead by then anyways. Is there something else I should change? Or are our ranged dps just insane?
    in reguards to that... imo just tell rogues to stop sucking, they need to time when they do their tricks better. A very large amount of our wipes were to rogues messing up, but I get ZERO time to get my own threat for the adds, people are dotting them up as they come in and once they get in group if a dps pulls it is not their fault. The adds need to go down ASAP! You can either do a few things... bring an additional hunter into the raid to have the 2nd hunter just MD you another add instead of a rogue running out or bring another rogue in if threat is for some reason an issue for you. and in reguards to shockwave i did mention to you before a little about it but there are certain time frames on which you can use it, you just have to know when you can or cannot based the wave. i could explain a little more... i guess if you have questions

    edit* what we found to work for us was bringing 1 less rogue and i pick up an add myself plus get quick threat on the 2nd closest one before it wacks a melee from WW or cleave or w/e. but if you only hav 2 rogues in your raid you have to have at least 1 stay in melee range and just FoK tricks when they stack up. that 1 rogue is more than enough threat as long as the tricks is timmed properly. on our 8 minute kill last week we only had 1 rogue using tricks on me and i had no threat issues.
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

  14. #54
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    I like the hunter idea, or even a 3rd rogue that just does a tricks FoK once all 4 are in place, just gets kinda tricky since MD can't stack.

    If only we had a 3rd rogue. For some reason if rogues don't pull their specific adds and we wait for them to come in a healer gets gibbed. I can't really explain it. Maybe I'm just not that good =P.

    Also: what timer do you use for the shadowstrike? Our holy wrath pally is saying his DBM resets the timer randomly after phase 3 and has missed some shadowstrikes because of it.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    I like the hunter idea, or even a 3rd rogue that just does a tricks FoK once all 4 are in place, just gets kinda tricky since MD can't stack.
    easy way to fix that. have 1 hunter MD back left 3 shots onto you right away get those 3 shots right away MD falls off, then the 2nd hunter puts MD up on you a few seconds after since the first MD falls off after 3 shots then he gets 3 shots on the opposining side respective to the other hunters position before it is even half way to the permafrost and its as easy as pie from there =D

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    If only we had a 3rd rogue. For some reason if rogues don't pull their specific adds and we wait for them to come in a healer gets gibbed. I can't really explain it. Maybe I'm just not that good =P.
    that is rogues FAILING and FAILING and FAILING and FAILING and MORE FAILING they need to RUN THE HELL out and meet the adds when they spawn. I can't stress the importance of that enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Also: what timer do you use for the shadowstrike? Our holy wrath pally is saying his DBM resets the timer randomly after phase 3 and has missed some shadowstrikes because of it.
    we made our own timmers for them. that is about all i can say though.
    Last edited by Badga; 10-05-2009 at 12:51 PM.
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badga View Post

    that is rogues FAILING and FAILING and FAILING and FAILING and MORE FAILING they need to RUN THE HELL out and meet the adds when they spawn. I can't stress the importance of that enough.
    We have one rogue that claims she does, this is also the rogue that most consistantly pulls aggro though.

    So is it your opinion that cleave/tclap should be enough threat for the side adds if the Tricks is good enough and I should focus on the one I taunt/MD'd one?

    Edit: Timers: apparently the new Deus Vox encounters mod works fine.
    [Today 09:38 AM] Reev: The older I get, the more I think those Greek philosophers were just annoying hipsters.
    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    We have one rogue that claims she does, this is also the rogue that most consistantly pulls aggro though.
    the she is the root of the problem ^_^ lol, but then that is 100% her own fault tell her to stop sucking at playing a rogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    So is it your opinion that cleave/tclap should be enough threat for the side adds if the Tricks is good enough and I should focus on the one I taunt/MD'd one?
    yes as long as you have ONE tricks that you can rely on then you will be just fine.
    Finkill | <Rush> | US Horde | Dark Iron
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...inkill&gn=Rush

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