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Thread: Mongoose over Blood Draining?

  1. #1

    Mongoose over Blood Draining?

    Recent research on my part has uncovered that alot of tanks are now using Mongoose over Blood Draining again. Can anyone give me a concrete answer as to why? If possible some math would be nice too

  2. #2
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    This is just mu personal opinion i use Mongoose over blood draining cause i love dodge and i have no problem at all staying alive in raid or parties with the 30% healed u get if you almost die. And it still gives me 1.5% dodge so i am in love with mongoose and it has a pretty good proc rate and is up for me 85%of the time so you have 1.5% dodge most of the time bringing me up to 31.21% dodge Fully Buffed this is JUST my Opinion on the matter

  3. #3
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    I like using blood draining because the buff is always up. I already tanked a lot of fights when sometimes i got a spike damage and go really low and healers get me back up. With blood draining this help a lot. It's not a big diference if you do the math betwen what damage you getting and how much health you are receiving, but it's a very good tank enchant.

    Btw, don't use blade ward, is sad =/

  4. #4
    I don't use Blade Ward o.O

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raij View Post
    I don't use Blade Ward o.O
    I know o.o, just saying because i do see a lot people saying is a good tanking enchant. But a lot of reports and math just say is not. =p

  6. #6
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    I do not find the health gain from Blood Draining to have a significant impact on keeping me alive due to the shear amount of dmg that boss's are putting out now. Personally i find the Mongoose proc to be more beneficial then the 2K heal at this time. Early Ulduar yes Blood Draining is good but i just don't feel the heal is enough to support me having it on my WPN for Ulduar HM and Heroic ToC.
    The answer is user error

  7. #7
    Yeh, last time I looked at the benefits was early Ulduar as well, now with Ulduar HMs (all done) and now ToC HMs maybe Mongoose is the better option.

  8. #8
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    IMO it's more a question of do you like spikey damage or do you like to even the damage out as much as possible. The old avoid vs EH argument.

    I'll always prefer EH. It's been this way since EQ, really (armor breakpoints).

  9. #9
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    Blood Drain is a progression enchant...

    Mongoose is a standered enchant..


    it all depends on what u want a smart health pot(Blood Drain), or Mongoose

  10. #10
    Blood drain is +2000hp enchant in practice.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookey View Post
    Blood drain is +2000hp enchant in practice.
    No it's not.

    Example: You have 48000 hp (raidbuffed)
    Boss A hits you for 30k, you now have 18k hp.
    You get healed for 10k hp, you now have 28k hp.
    Boss A hits you for 30k again, you are now dead, and blood draining did fuck all about it.

    There's tons more examples where blood draining will be completely useless, like on bosses that hit hard enough to keep you below 35% hp for the majority of the fight, again you'd rather avoid some of his dmg (mongoose), than have a tiny heal every now and then. An effective health enchant would be there whenever you need it, blood draining simply isn't.

    Last thing worth mentioning is probably that ie. Xav and Kungen use mongoose.
    Last edited by delor; 09-18-2009 at 05:06 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by delor View Post
    No it's not.
    There's tons more examples where blood draining will be completely useless, like on bosses that hit hard enough to keep you below 35% hp for the majority of the fight, again you'd rather avoid some of his dmg (mongoose), than have a tiny heal every now and then. An effective health enchant would be there whenever you need it, blood draining simply isn't.

    Last thing worth mentioning is probably that ie. Xav and Kungen use mongoose.
    So you get a second tank weapon with an enchant to fit the circumstance, you come up against a boss that favours blood draining then equip weapon 1, you come up against a boss that favours mongoose, blade ward, etc equip a weapon with one of these enchants.

  13. #13
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    Kungen seems to swap enchants a lot (so do a lot of other tanks). Overall, I see more tanks in world-class guilds using blood draining than mongoose. They are both about equal in my book. Just a matter of preference. Although mongoose is the only enchant of the 2 that helps with threat as well as survival.

  14. #14
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    mongoose mongoose mongoose use it (around 500 armor 2% crit and 1.5% dodge) and it procs a lot, mongoose will also proc your black heart as well if you have one (dont believe me ?? go hit a target dummy for a while, ull see when mongoose procs it will proc your black heart to most of the time) ... blood draining is terrible ... a 2k heal below 30% wont do a thing with the amount the bosses hit for these days ... i wouldn't use it for progression if you paid me

  15. #15
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    According to this WoL parse from premonition, Xav had 42% uptime on mongoose. According to rawr, 120 agi only adds 1.02% dodge to my character (I took off any trinkets or weapon enchants that would mess with the dodge and replaced some stam gems with agi until i got 120 additional agi). Which means mongoose is roughly equivalent to .42% dodge. I currently use Blade Ward because after 3.2 came out it was said somewhere on tankspot (cant remember the exact thread) that Blade Ward gives more avoidance than mongoose now. I checked some of my guilds WoL reports (I cant link them here unfortunately because they are not publicly viewable) and on our last heroic jaraxxus kill the parse showed 22.2% parries. I didn't pop any trinkets and the parry on my character tooltip shows 21.48% meaning Blade Ward gave me .72% avoidance for the fight. I understand that the parse wont necessarily always agree with the character window simply because of RNG, but its gotta be damn close.

    Anyway, the reason I even looked into this is because I noticed xav and some other high end tanks still used mongoose. Now, unless I got crazy RNG on that fight, I dont see any reason to use mongoose over Blade Ward unless you really like that 240 armor it gives.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by delor View Post
    you'd rather avoid some of his dmg (mongoose), than have a tiny heal every now and then.
    Misconstrued and inaccurate comparison. What you should be comparing is a tiny heal versus a tiny avoidance boost.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eetabeetay View Post
    our last heroic jaraxxus kill the parse showed 22.2% parries. I didn't pop any trinkets and the parry on my character tooltip shows 21.48% meaning Blade Ward gave me .72% avoidance for the fight. I understand that the parse wont necessarily always agree with the character window simply because of RNG, but its gotta be damn close.
    No it doesn't. You could have a rather sizeable swing on percentages over a single fight, and still be within 1 SD of the actual value. You can't infer the benefit of Blade Ward from your provided parse information.

  17. #17
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    Blade ward and mongoose provided the same total avoidance over the fight back before the parry buff and the dodge/agi nerf. With the changes, even with the higher uptime of mongoose, if you want avoidance you want bladeward.

  18. #18
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    With all the new gears unless you are doing hard modes or progression you already outgear everything ... more threat and damage >>>> survival ATM.

    Come new harder instances things may turn around we shall see.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by theholyfx View Post
    Blade ward and mongoose provided the same total avoidance over the fight back before the parry buff and the dodge/agi nerf. With the changes, even with the higher uptime of mongoose, if you want avoidance you want bladeward.
    Actually Blade Ward was around equal to mongoose when factoring only a single stack of its buff. Even before the patch additional stacks would put it ahead. Then came the patch mentioned and it became clearly better total avoidance. And in regards to the threat component people were reporting that the Blade Ward proc was yielding at least 1% of their damage. So it yields a similar benefit there. Blade Ward, like Mongoose, can also proc the effect from The Black Heart.

    So as theholyfx said: "...if you want avoidance you want bladeward." Its true. (backed by math and actual logs)

    Think of it this way. 4% avoidance on a single proc and it has around a 20% uptime. Thats just short of Rune of Repulsion's use effect being kept on cool down(15% uptime). If you include stacks you could find it being roughly equal.

    Also consider that if you're around 60% avoidance already then 4% parry is a reduction of 10% of the hits that would have otherwise landed during its proc period. Its also a significant step toward reducing the strings of landed attacks.

    Some people just don't like how random Blade Ward is, and I understand the want to have something more consistently up. As it is I think it's a fully viable raid tanking enchant even for end game/progression content.

  20. #20
    Someone did the math not too long ago outlining the various enchants versus one another. Wish I could find it.

    I prefer Mongoose as every other "tank" enchant seems pretty lackluster.

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