Reply With QuoteIt can lead to some very interesting conclusions yes. This is probably why they're reducing the amount of stats next expansion as well, you need spreadsheets and sims to know what gear and abilities are best for you.
According to this, if I don't care about dps at all, I should do nothing but devastate. in fact, with both set bonuses from t8 and t9, it is 700 tps higher than the next closest thing (shockwave). It actually does more TPS and DPS than SS.
EDIT: After putting in the right block value... They are much closer together and it should be devastate spam w/ SS every time it is up.
Last edited by bonerkill; 09-17-2009 at 07:30 PM.
It can lead to some very interesting conclusions yes. This is probably why they're reducing the amount of stats next expansion as well, you need spreadsheets and sims to know what gear and abilities are best for you.
I see you are coming to understand my post in the other threadOriginally Posted by Kazeyonoma
.
Don't forget to take those 2 points out of imp revenge and put them somewhere else (i like shield spec).
Regardless of wether I wear 2 piece T9 + 2 piece T8 or just 1 of either piece with a 2.6 weapon
Max threat :
shield slam -> devestate
Max threat per rage :
sword and board shield slam -> revenge -> devestate -> shield slam
2.6 speed weapon is 100 less threat than 1.5 speed weapon (8950 vs 8850) but less rage required for heroic strikes as well and less parries if you are concerned about parry haste. If heroic strike ratio is below 90%, 2.6 speed weapon is better.
The formulas in the spreadsheet already show heroic strike as pretty horrible for anything except a rage dump (and in fact highly detrimental to threat if it stops a shield slam or devestate), however I think they are too optimistic.
The threat per rage for heroic strike should be =(D23-C23)/D24 aka (threat of heroic strike - threat of white swing) / rage cost of heroic strike and the rage cost for heroic strike should be 15- talents + rage gained for a white swing (aka =15-Stats!B20-Stats!B32-C24) which drops threat per rage from 248 to 95.14. Its a bit better with a hypothetical 1.5 speed weapon since you are only losing 9 rage from your white swing instead of 15 but its still extremely expensive.
To be clear, if you hit heroic strike you are saying:
I am willing to give up 9-15 rage for my next white swing plus an additional 9 rage for the heroic strike to give myself a small amount of threat. If I do this 4 times, I have gained 1 additional devastate worth of threat. I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the odds of me needing this ~21 rage is close enough to zero to RISK screwing up my threat rotation.
The increase in threat for using heroic strike 100% of the time is 14%
So be careful with heroic strike ladies and gentlemen.
With a 2.6 weapon, I personally am only around 50% of swings using heroic strike according to combat logs. If you run a 1.5 speed weapon, you would need 65% heroic strikes to equal my 50%.
Running with cruelty instead of incite + deep wounds cuts threat by about 10% but it should still be high enough for dpsers to not have to worry.
Hmmm, you're totally right, I'll update HS to show only added damage/threat
Edit: Also updated Cleave while I was at it.
Last edited by Airowird; 09-24-2009 at 06:48 AM.
V1.03 now uploaded.
Check change log for changes.
Just to put it here as well as in the other thread, there is no reason that anyone doesn't have 95% HS uptime. Spin your mouse to turn and guarantee a hit to boost your rage if you are streaking on avoidance or otherwise rage starving, then spin back and keep on tanking. Since you can use specials (Devastate, Shield Slam) from a 90 degree facing, it is very unlikely you will disrupt your rotation.
At the same time, threat is such a joke now that all of the theorycrafting about it is basically moot anyway.
Last edited by Satrina; 09-30-2009 at 11:23 AM.
Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!
That's why I added DPS in there as well, tanks comfortable with their threat can optimize their DPS instead to help beat enrage timers (something the Glyph of Devastate does not do well, as it only adds massive amounts of innate threat)
On the other hand, as content is so easy now, a lot of people such as myself have tank alts that they take into 10mans, where a main DPS may have a large advantage over you in gear. At such points I do find maxing TPS more important to let them do the DPS instead of me.
I am new to this area of theorycrafting, so bear with me.
Abilities!E3 is =5*202+WPN_DMG*WPN_SPEED+(2.4/14)*AP
5*202 is the sunder bonus.
(2.4/14)*AP is the normalized AP bonus.
What is WPN_DMG*WPN_SPEED?
That kind of suggests that it is not normalized. Shouldn't the WPN_SPEED be omitted?
If not, let me know why. I'd love to learn!
Thanks
I haven't looked at the spreadsheet's guts before writing this, but do remember that your autoattack hits are not normalised and so get damage added based on your weapon's actual speed. Heroic Strike is an on-next-attack ability that replaces autoattack swings, and so is also not normalised. Same with Cleave.
Edit: Of course, now that I have opened the spreadsheet I see you're talking about Devastate.
Edit2: Right. The spreadsheet is basing its damage calc on the weapon's DPS stat, so you will need to multiply damage/second by seconds to get the damage per hit. You need that for the 100% weapon damage part of Devastate. Hence, WPN_DMG is the DPS as listed on the weapon, multiplied by WPN_SPEED to get damage done per hit. You then add the normalised portion using attack power and away you go.
Last edited by Satrina; 10-01-2009 at 01:18 PM.
Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!
Yah. But that's the Devastate damage cell
Okay.
So a weapon with 200 DPS and a 3.0 attack speed will have twice the damage of one with 100 DPS and 1.5 attack speed, but only for the weapon damage component?
And thus normalization refers only to the contribution from attack power?
Sounds like only a portion of the formula is normalized.
Dammit! Stop updating your post to answer my latest question before I ask it!
Your sheet assumes that innate threat is added on misses/dodges/parries.
For SS:
=(C9+C4)*Stats!$E21
=(averagedamage+innatethreat)*threatmodifier
That formula is factoring hit/miss/crit for damage but assuming a 100% probability of hitting with innate threat.
You're correct, changing it now, will update with next version
Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
Found out something remarable, yesterday:
On your spreadsheet, skilled 0/3 Attt, 5/5 Cruelty results in higher TPS than 3/3 Attt and 2/5 Cruelty.
I calculated with different setboni, armor-sets, and so on. Especially Shockwave and CB seemed to benefit a lot more from cruelty, but even a rotation completely without everthing but Shiled Slam and Devastate generates more TPS, when Cruelty is maxed out. Please note, that this refers to a Deep Wounds spec.
Did I miss something or why skills each tank Attt?
Last edited by Trondhjem; 10-10-2009 at 12:24 PM.
attt = 3(armor/108)
kk my fault, edited the post above. cause its still remarable, i think
____
One more edit:
Just seen in the spreadsheet.
My Armor: 27989, buffed: 29573
My AP: 2878, buffed: 4799
Attt: 0/3
Now i set Attt to 3/3. (29573/108)*3=821 AP should be added, isn't it? Or am I wrong and Attt does not take buffed armor into account, so (27989/108)*3=778 AP is the right number? However, in the spreadsheet, my AP rises to incredible 4845 AP... -.-
This means, by maxing out Attt, your spreadsheet adds 46 AP, what matches 1656 Armor?! Why?
Last edited by Trondhjem; 10-10-2009 at 12:41 PM.
I'm gonna take a guess here ... Did you change your base AP in the spreadsheet when you changed your AttT points? Because the spreadsheet kinda assumes you're reading off the armory. Maybe it's not that convenient when it comes to theorycrafting different talent specs, but that was nto something I had in mind when I started building it.
Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
Yes, I did.
But changing Attt to 0 and using my 'base'-AP should be the correct way now (?), because the sheet still adds too less AP when changing to 3 Attt points.
If not, how can I find out my correct TPS with and without Attt?
The correct formula for AttT is INT(Armor / 108) * 3
INT(X) means you round down X to the decimal point. So 108 armor will give 3 AP, but so will 215.
As said before, I assume you read all the stats off armory, so the easiest way to see the correct AP numbers is respec all talents except AttT ingame, fill in that AP, then talent it and fill in that number to see the difference.
Or you just grab a free cell somewhere in the spreadsheet and type "=INT(B10/108)*3" That's the AP you need to add/substract from the Armory number.
Protection Warrior Spreadsheet
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks