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Thread: Avoidance and You! Death of the Avoidance Set?

  1. #1
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    Avoidance and You! Death of the Avoidance Set?

    I was looking at the extra gear in my bag yesterday thinking about what I could trim to save some space. There were several items that I didn't want to get rid of because they were avoidance items. But when do I use these items? I started thinking about what fights were good for avoidance.

    Now before I get started I wanted to define avoidance. When *I* say avoidance I mean dodge, parry, and miss. I know people like to count block as an avoidance stat but I don't. Also, I am aware that druids could give a crap about parry. However for the purposes of this discussion, identifying avoidance fights, we are going to run with dodge, parry, and miss.

    Avoidance = Dodge, Parry, and Miss.

    Now I want to identify what exactly avoidance does, in other words what is the effect of avoidance on the raid as a whole. Avoidance does a few things that come to mind.

    First thing it does, and probably the biggest thing, is it reduces the amount of mana healers need to make it though the fight. Why? In most fights tanks take more damage than any other raid member and the less damage the tank takes the less stress on the healers.

    Second thing avoidance does is it triggers abilities like Rune Strike or Revenge. I know that this is huge for DKs for threat generation as Rune Strike can be their #1 threat ability depending on their play style/spec.

    Next avoidance controls how predictable the incoming damage on a tank is. This is the perception, from the healers point of view, of how "spiky" a tank is. If a tank is very spiky he become difficult to heal. For example if a tank stacks avoidance over everything else his HP pool will be smaller and he will not reduce each hit he takes by much. So he might have a 80% avoidance however if he only has 25k HP every hit he takes will reduce him to 5k HP or lower. Each hit he takes will be bigger, like 20k, but he will not be hit by most of the hits. He might be taking less overall damage, but he is very hard to heal because the hits he takes are a large percentage of his Health pool.

    The opposite of this is if a tank stacks effective health of 50K HP and has no avoidance at all, he is going to take every hit and each hit will be reduced due to armor. Each hit he takes will be about 10k and he will take a ton more overall damage, but he is much easier to heal as the damage is predictable.

    Last thing that avoidance does is affect rage generation for the warrior and Druid tanks. More avoidance equals less rage. As each hit they take generates rage.

    Ok, to sum up what we have so far...

    1) Avoidance = Dodge, Parry, and Miss.

    2) Affects healer mana spent.

    3) Affects threat via abilities like Rune Strike or Revenge.

    4) Controls the predictability of incoming damage.

    5) Controls rage generation.

    Now I asked myself which of these things would be beneficial to the raid to warrant stacking avoidance. Really the only one that stands out is:

    2) Affects healer mana spent.

    So I started looking at all the fights we currently do and which ones do healers start to suffer on mana for any reason, not just because of tank damage. As we are looking at the big picture of how can we help out the raid to progress or whatever the case may be.

    Ulduar

    Flame Leviathan - N/A

    Ignis - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Razorscale - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    XT-002 - Can be difficult to heal due to spikes of damage but is not that mana intensive.

    Kologarn - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Assembly of Iron - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Auriaya - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Hodir - This is a mana intensive fight for healers. However this is a heavy threat fight for tanks due to the buffs that the DPS get. On top of that the tanks often have to wear a piece of frost resist gear. Thus making it difficult to stack avoidance to save on healer mana.

    Thorim - This is a unique fight due to Unbalancing Strike. This can miss the tank however it cannot be dodged or parried. However he does have a stacking buff that makes him harder and harder to tank however this part of the fight is about mitigating the damage not avoiding it. EH seems to win out here. Particularly on hard mode.

    Freya - Not particularly a mana intensive fight. It can be on Hard mode if you have a lot of raid members taking too much of the AE damage. However avoidance isn't going to save your healers a ton of mana here as most of the damage is AE.

    Mimiron - This is another case both in regular mode and hard mode where the bulk of the strain on the healers is going to come from raid damage. Tanks are not even tanking during phase 2 and during phase 3 tanks are only taking small amounts of damage from the adds.

    General Vezax - This is the fight that avoidance really stands out. He is a slow hitting boss so damage can be unpredictable as it is already. On top of that the mana mechanic of this fight makes mana very tight for the healers. And if you are doing Hard Mode mana is very, very, hard to keep around. So reducing the overall damage taken is a very favorable thing to do here. Keep in mind that this is if you are tanking the boss. If you are off tanking the Saronite Animus on hard mode you are going to want to stack threat or balance threat and avoidance. This part of the hard mode is very threat intensive as you have to burn the Saronite Animus as fast as possible.

    Yogg-Saron - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Algalon - Favors EH or a block set over Avoidance.

    Trial of the Crusader

    Northrend beasts - With one of the worms enraging in phase 2 and the threat of the possibility of Icehowl Enraging due to someone failing to move out of the way, EH wins for this fight.

    Lord Jaraxxus - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Faction Champions - N/A cannot effectively tank these mobs.

    Twin Val'kyr - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.

    Anub'arak - In phase 3 this is a very mana intensive fight, however this is due to massive raid damage that he does not the tank damage.



    So look back at the list I only see one fight that avoidance really stands out and that is General Vezax. This is only on man's opinion. If you disagree with something I said let me know what you think, as of right now I am not too impressed with stacking avoidance at all. Also if you have something to add post it! Tell me what you think. I am all about keeping multiple sets of tanking gear around for different fights.

    Closing thoughts, with ToC here and Ulduar on its way out, there does not seem to be a need to keep an avoidance set around anymore.

    Discuss!
    I'll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.
    Kensú

  2. #2
    Interesting, I was thinking the same, I haven't used my avoidance set in ages. (I don't do hard modes tho.)

  3. #3
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    Your numbers were way off however.

    a 50k hp tank does not go down to 25k hp by stacking avoidance. He might go down to 44, or 45k.

    Use realistic numbers or don't bother.

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    Uhh, I was just using it as an example to illustrate a point. Calm down man.
    I'll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.
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    Can someone give me their reasoning how an avoidance set is more mana efficient if you are going to be getting the same amount of heals done just more over heals.

    What I find an avoidance set useful for is for really fast hitting bosses where your healers can never get a heal on you in between hits like patch or algalon or a very slow hitting boss where the healers can heal you up in between hits to prevent over heal like you said Vezax, XT or Auraya. Or with an avoidable debuff such as kologarn.

    But I do agree with you that I find my self with my EH set much more than my avoidance set.
    Last edited by krc; 09-16-2009 at 03:57 PM.

  6. #6
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    As a healer since classic I can only say that high avoid and lower life only make healers nervous. I can remember a couple of encounters where I was so bored I wanded the boss because no damage whatosever reached my tank. POM and forget. Then, suddenly he is down to 20% putting me into danger *TILT* overload mode. Yes, there are/were encounters like that.

    To me, avoidance = unpredictability = when in doubt, let the heal go thru = overheal. I repeat: in my experience avoid doesn't save healer mana.
    If a tank has the choice between +5k life(not EH, life) or +5% avoid then that's no choice at all.
    Being a Disc Priest since WOTLK and Holy before I can cope with tank spikyness by always at all times keeping shield up and saving Penance for whenever a hit connected but the old school "starting GH, interrupting if not needed" of a BC Holypriest would have resulted in MASSIVE overheal because I'd be too nervous to interrupt.
    Even now, when I can get by with the old "shield, POW and watch" routine I don't dare to wand because one triggered GC can decide between life and death of my ward.
    ...and don't get me started about 20% chance for shield block whereof 30% has a chance to block the double amount. If it weren't for the higher damage for SS those talent points should be spent elsewhere.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalphir View Post
    Your numbers were way off however.

    a 50k hp tank does not go down to 25k hp by stacking avoidance. He might go down to 44, or 45k.

    Use realistic numbers or don't bother.
    If you are going to be so curt about using realistic numbers I would go back and take a look at your Sig, last time i check zero people on this forum consider block avoidance

  8. #8
    Realistic numbers?

    Well I did similar calculations recently. I'm Ulduar/Toc25 geared tank, with 39K hp, so I used Rawr to recalculate EH vs Avoidance. But not with one set vs another just more

    "How much avoidance would I get if I resocket/reenchant everything I wear?"

    Approx (I have exact numbers @ home): From 50% avoidance I went to around 60% and my health pool from 39K went to 35K. However when you gem for Avoidance instead of EH have in mind that you lose arround 300-400HP from BoK as well.

    However yes... This set is only great for Vezax, each other fight will favor EH anyway.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  9. #9
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    In trying to prove a point realistic numbers definitely matter. If you want to be taken seriously you cannot just throw a number out and not expect someone to correct your or ask where your numbers came from. Also avoidance has never included block and anyone who thinks it does is sorely mistaken so I am not entirely sure why that needed to be included.

    To the question on hand the name of the game right now is making sure you have the EH to survive a few hits (as it has always been) while maintaining enough avoidance to avoid large chunks of damage and having enough threat stats to stay above your DPS. Avoidance is very useful and has its place in your gear. If you have more health than every other tank around but have little to no avoidance you will be cut down to size very swiftly because the hits are just too much to be able to reliably live just on mitigation. As far as keeping different sets around that has been the case ever since different types of tank itemization came out and wearing the right combination at the right time comes down to knowing the encounter you are facing at the time, be it trash or the various types of bosses.

  10. #10
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    To the op: this is a very bad written post. Some conclusions maay be right, the way you come to them is wrong.

    rest of the readers: read a better post about avoidance.

  11. #11
    I still think it's in the healthy mix. Have some healer produce a constant healing effect, and one other with good reflex-spells be the spike healer.

    e.g.: Resto Shaman + Disc Priest, Priest uses PW:S -> FH chain when the damage exceeds the raw output the Shammy spams.
    SQUEAK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    To the op: this is a very bad written post. Some conclusions maay be right, the way you come to them is wrong.

    rest of the readers: read a better post about avoidance.

    Where did all these flames come from? I have never seen so many flames being thrown around on these forums.

    I was trying to spark some discussion. If you think I am wrong about something please enlighten me. That was the purpose of the tread. I wanted to learn something, not get flamed and waste my time. This is not meant to be a guide of any sort. I was going through avoidance step by step, and fight by fight to see what I could come up with.

    I was looking for a reason to keep an avoidance set around in my bags. But rather than put up a two sentence post asking about what people use their avoidance sets for, I figured I would spend some time and post something more constructive.
    I'll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.
    Kensú

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensu View Post
    Where did all these flames come from? I have never seen so many flames being thrown around on these forums.

    I was trying to spark some discussion. If you think I am wrong about something please enlighten me. That was the purpose of the tread. I wanted to learn something, not get flamed and waste my time. This is not meant to be a guide of any sort. I was going through avoidance step by step, and fight by fight to see what I could come up with.

    I was looking for a reason to keep an avoidance set around in my bags. But rather than put up a two sentence post asking about what people use their avoidance sets for, I figured I would spend some time and post something more constructive.
    Sorry but your starting post showed a big lack of understanding why avoidance can be good. I'll write a bigger reply which describes my concerns.

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    I like to use it in any situation where I'm overgearing what I'm tanking, mostly in 10s
    By that I mean any situation where my healers will heal reactively (Freya +x comes to mind), because that means I'm in no immediate danger, and I should try and reduce incoming damage more than be able to take 4 more hits.
    Yes, there's a lot of aoe/rsts on this fight, but this damage is meant to hurt clothies, not 43khp tanks

    That's one example, but I could also count Kologarn to avoid the debuff
    Anytime I'm offtanking (except Auriaya )

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensu View Post
    First thing it does, and probably the biggest thing, is it reduces the amount of mana healers need to make it though the fight. Why? In most fights tanks take more damage than any other raid member and the less damage the tank takes the less stress on the healers.
    I don't agree with this. In current content healers won't have manaproblems healing the tank.
    The biggest thing avoidance does is reduce the chance to get hit 2 or 3 times in a row dramatically. These are the biggest reasons why tanks die. 2 or 3 unavoided hits in a row.
    You base most assumptions on saving healer mana while it should be based on survivability.
    Next avoidance controls how predictable the incoming damage on a tank is. This is the perception, from the healers point of view, of how "spiky" a tank is. If a tank is very spiky he become difficult to heal. For example if a tank stacks avoidance over everything else his HP pool will be smaller and he will not reduce each hit he takes by much. So he might have a 80% avoidance however if he only has 25k HP every hit he takes will reduce him to 5k HP or lower. Each hit he takes will be bigger, like 20k, but he will not be hit by most of the hits. He might be taking less overall damage, but he is very hard to heal because the hits he takes are a large percentage of his Health pool.
    The opposite of this is if a tank stacks effective health of 50K HP and has no avoidance at all, he is going to take every hit and each hit will be reduced due to armor. Each hit he takes will be about 10k and he will take a ton more overall damage, but he is much easier to heal as the damage is predictable.
    Spiky, an "avoidance tank is spiky". I've heard this argument a lot but I don't agree with it. Basically because it uses the wrong assumption: more avoidance is more spiky. That's incorrect. If you compare a 60% avoidance tank with a 0% avoidance tank it might be right.
    But, 0% avoidance tanks don't exist in WoW. It would be hard for me to find a tank in WoW even badly geared tanks who don't have at least 50% avoidance. With 50% avoidance, the tank is about as spiky as with 70% avoidance, not much more predictable. On the other hand though: the 50% avoidance tank will much more often then the 70% avoidance tank have strings of 2 or 3 or even 4 connected hits. So I'd like to argue that the 50% tank is more spiky in that it takes more damage spikes.
    Ok, to sum up what we have so far...

    1) Avoidance = Dodge, Parry, and Miss.

    2) Affects healer mana spent. (n

    3) Affects threat via abilities like Rune Strike or Revenge.

    4) Controls the predictability of incoming damage.

    5) Controls rage generation.

    Now I asked myself which of these things would be beneficial to the raid to warrant stacking avoidance. Really the only one that stands out is:

    2) Affects healer mana spent.

    So I started looking at all the fights we currently do and which ones do healers start to suffer on mana for any reason, not just because of tank damage. As we are looking at the big picture of how can we help out the raid to progress or whatever the case may be.
    Because you think that healer mana is most important of avoidance you draw the wrong conclusions here.
    Ulduar
    Flame Leviathan - N/A
    Ignis - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    Nope: avoidance is not good here because there's a lot of non-avoidable damage, damage where avoidance simply doesn't work.
    Razorscale - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    Same: when it matters there's a lot of magic damage.
    XT-002 - Can be difficult to heal due to spikes of damage but is not that mana intensive.
    Here comes the biggest reason why in WotLK so many tanks go for effective health. If I would choose to go for avoidance and sacrifise effective health for that, XT would 2-shot me. That's just too dangerous.
    Kologarn - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    Actually this is a fight where avoidance can shine big time. In an avoidance heavy set you will see the armor debuff he does falling off very often, if you get it at all.
    Assembly of Iron - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    The most dangerous thing for a tank in the encounter is fusion punch which is non-avoidable magic damage.
    Auriaya - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    This is a fight where avoidance can be really good. The feral defender can stun your healers and without healers a tank can drop fast. With avoidance you can have THAT much more time to use emergency measures.
    Hodir - This is a mana intensive fight for healers. However this is a heavy threat fight for tanks due to the buffs that the DPS get. On top of that the tanks often have to wear a piece of frost resist gear. Thus making it difficult to stack avoidance to save on healer mana.
    This fight isn't about strings of connected hits but about the "one hit" which can kill you combined with a lot of magic damage. Health wins here.
    Thorim - This is a unique fight due to Unbalancing Strike. This can miss the tank however it cannot be dodged or parried. However he does have a stacking
    buff that makes him harder and harder to tank however this part of the fight is about mitigating the damage not avoiding it. EH seems to win out here. Particularly on hard mode.
    I still am not sure if avoidance is good or EH is better. I need more research on this fight.
    Freya - Not particularly a mana intensive fight. It can be on Hard mode if you have a lot of raid members taking too much of the AE damage. However avoidance isn't going to save your healers a ton of mana here as most of the damage is AE.
    This is not really a fight where tank deaths happen. I don't know if it matters if you go in with EH or avoidance.
    Mimiron - This is another case both in regular mode and hard mode where the bulk of the strain on the healers is going to come from raid damage. Tanks are not even tanking during phase 2 and during phase 3 tanks are only taking small amounts of damage from the adds.
    Apart from the start this is not really a fight that tests tank survivability. Because of the magic dot at the start health wins here.
    General Vezax - This is the fight that avoidance really stands out. He is a slow hitting boss so damage can be unpredictable as it is already. On top of that the mana mechanic of this fight makes mana very tight for the healers. And if you are doing Hard Mode mana is very, very, hard to keep around. So reducing the overall damage taken is a very favorable thing to do here. Keep in mind that this is if you are tanking the boss. If you are off tanking the Saronite Animus on hard mode you are going to want to stack threat or balance threat and avoidance. This part of the hard mode is very threat intensive as you have to burn the Saronite Animus as fast as possible.
    With good dps this is mostly a tps race. I use threat gear here.
    Yogg-Saron - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    For tanks not really a gear test, more of a coordination test.
    Algalon - Favors EH or a block set over Avoidance.
    Algalon is an interesting fight. This is a fight where avoidance could really shine. But the minimum EH required is so high that you can't go for avoidance big time ............yet.
    Trial of the Crusader
    Northrend beasts - With one of the worms enraging in phase 2 and the threat of the possibility of Icehowl Enraging due to someone failing to move out of the way, EH wins for this fight.
    Tanks are pretty easy healable through a worm enrage and icehowl enraging because he hit someone is fail anyhow. Why is EH health good here: because of gormok and his abilities: a strong dot combined with a high unavoidable hit when it's applied.
    Lord Jaraxxus - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    Tank doesn't get that much damage if interrupts are kept up and you move out of the fire, imo you could tank this easy in blue gear.
    Faction Champions - N/A cannot effectively tank these mobs.

    Twin Val'kyr - Not particularly a mana intensive fight.
    The dangerous damage here are the exploding orbs, not the boss hits. The orbs are magic damage: hp wins here.
    Anub'arak - In phase 3 this is a very mana intensive fight, however this is due to massive raid damage that he does not the tank damage.
    I'm still wiping on heroic 10 men anub. I've got a feeling that this could be a fight tailormade for an avoidance tank, have to test it.
    So look back at the list I only see one fight that avoidance really stands out and that is General Vezax. This is only on man's opinion. If you disagree with something I said let me know what you think, as of right now I am not too impressed with stacking avoidance at all. Also if you have something to add post it! Tell me what you think. I am all about keeping multiple sets of tanking gear around for different fights.
    Closing thoughts, with ToC here and Ulduar on its way out, there does not seem to be a need to keep an avoidance set around anymore.
    Discuss!
    Like you see: I agree with the conclusion that effective health is best way to go but for substantially different reasons.
    The biggest reasons for me to go for EH is that if I lower my HP to get more avoidance I end up opening myself for being 2 hit and that often in fights, the dangerous damage is simply unavoidable, this has nothing to do with healer mana.

  16. #16
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    I believe (though correct me if I'm wrong) that the raid damage AoE component of Frozen Blows is triggered from him connecting a melee hit while the buff is up. If that is the case then there could be some benefit to an avoidance set in terms of conserving healer mana, as more avoided swings means reduced raid damage overall.

    Point taken about Frost Resist gear limiting your options somewhat, but we'll soon see it becoming an unnecessary component of that fight (I already don't use it if we're doing him on normal difficulty) just as it became unnecessary with Sartharian once people were fully Naxx geared.



  17. #17
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    Back in BC I had an avoidance set even though my regular tanking set was loaded with stamina. Ever since WOLTK has came out I haven't even thought of making an avoidance set. Bosses hit so hard now that I'm afraid to give up HP in favor of avoidance. When the boss hits for over 30k a shot, what is the maximum about of health that you would need? Sometimes a boss can hit you for more than your max HP.

    For sure, a max avoidance set with low HP has limited use in this expansion. Even with very high HP, you still need a medium amount of avoidance to give your healers enough time keep you alive.

    As a warrior tank, I have about 38.6k HP and 55% avoidance unbuffed and I still get stomped by Gormok.

  18. #18
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    Orcstar I like your post but what do you think about an avoidance set for algalon?

    I think that like you said with a certain amount of EH an avoidance set would work great because
    Algalon's swing timer is so fast that you usually will not be able to get a heal on you in between hits and I feel like avoiding an attack would work better than just soaking all those fast attacks where your healers can never get a heal on you in between them.

    And thank you for telling me about Auraya never really thought about using an avoidance set for her.

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    I think Orcstar is on the right track, but I don't wholy agree. I think I agree mostly because of what he said (can't avoid magic damage except through resists in gimmic fights and getting back to back hits). There's been a string of tanks posting today that have respectable EH (36k unbuffed) and are complaining they are going down like cheap whores. Speaking as a healer, it takes alot of effort as is to prepare the tank for the inevitable situations like bleed+impale, tanks can help with a phenomenal EH, but until some much greater gear scores are more common, it's still cutting edge healing for some guilds. It's the same battle every tank faces over and over again, the awkward step when new content comes out, having spent weeks being overgeared and familiar with fights and then suddenly being marginally geared in a progression fight. And the poor healer scrambling to compensate.

    At the same time, when they nerfed healer regens (especially FSR), the whole point was to drive healer to the OOM state if they didn't plan accordingly, just as some encounters are designed to trap tanks who stack survival (be it EH or avoidance) at the expense of threat. Kensu has a valid concern, but some of the people dismissing his concern may not see this issue because their healers are so well geared and have adapted to their skills that they no longer see this problem.

    Anyways, my take on the situation. I have long been a tank that favors avoidance, but I also realize that the current state of the game just drives everybody to EH. However, I think with colloseum, Pure stam stackers are hitting their limits. The solution is to have some minimums. I think most people understand the established threat minimums (hit cap/expertise cap). The same can be said for avoidance, if you dig hard enough, people can actually numerically state avoidance figures before DR kicks in at a significant rate (which in my books, is where I stop stacking avoidance and go for EH), but nobody actively concisely spells out these numbers. It may be because these numbers are very different for each class, whereas threat stat caps are the same for all tanks.

    Nobody has made a table saying "For bears, aime for this much dodge then go stam stack; For DKs aim for this much dodge, as parry is pointless, then go stam; For Paladins stack this much agi+dodge & parry because they have better agi->dodge conversion and here are the same figures for warriors". The only thing remotely close to this are people who have found the 1.8:2.62:1 ratio. But then again, posting such figures as hard numbers is dangerous as only the uninformed would use it, and to disastrous results because of their lack of deeper understanding.

    So, to all you hard core stam stackers who are having issues going down despite excellent EH, learn to embrace SOME avoidance, us avoidance tanks have been forced to head your way for a long time now.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    Nobody has made a table saying "For bears, aime for this much dodge then go stam stack; For DKs aim for this much dodge, as parry is pointless, then go stam; For Paladins stack this much agi+dodge & parry because they have better agi->dodge conversion and here are the same figures for warriors". The only thing remotely close to this are people who have found the 1.8:2.62:1 ratio. But then again, posting such figures as hard numbers is dangerous as only the uninformed would use it, and to disastrous results because of their lack of deeper understanding.
    The reason that people can't put numbers on when to go for EH and when to go for avoidance is that these numbers are fight dependant.
    Some fights favor EH some fights favor avoidance.
    I don't consider myself to be in the EH or the avoidance school. I'm in the "gear for the fight" school and the "2-3 hit" school.

    Gear for the fight is obvious.

    What I mean with "2-3 hit" school I'll illustrate with a simple example.
    It depends on what boss you're fighting.
    If you have 39 k health and the boss takes 20k each hit, by gaining 2k health you will change the situation from a 2 hit death to a 3 hit death. In that situation I'll go for extra hp.
    If however you have already 41 k hp I'll go for avoidance, because to be able to eat 4 hits in a row you'd need 20k more hp. So then it's better to go reduce the chance for "strings of hits".

    Also going for a hit cap I don't think is really needed unless you're low on tps or hitting taunts are vital in the fight.

    (and the tanks dropping like flies, I've noticed it and seen it in guild also. Two things:
    one: smart cooldown useage and yes shieldblock is a major lifesaver in tight scenarios.
    Take for instance northreand beasts on gormok.
    We have three tanks and each tanks takes 2 debuffs then we have a switch, I start and usually tank 3 times.
    The first time I don't use cooldowns. The second time I use a shield block when he does the second tick of the impale debuff, the third time I know that he applies the impale debuff every 10 seconds so 2 seconds before he does his first I press my last stand, this way my last stand will still be active when he applies the second(and does the big hit) and 8 seconds after.


    and two:..............armor.
    A lot of people I see aren't so much EH stacker but stamina stacker, they forget the other half of the equation. If you go from 63% physical damage reduction to 65% you will actually get over 5% less damage from physical hits.)
    Last edited by orcstar; 09-14-2009 at 02:55 PM.

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