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Thread: Baleroc

  1. #1

    Baleroc



    Quote Originally Posted by Lore
    What's up everybody and welcome back to the Firelands raid guide. My name is Lore, and I'll be guiding you through the 25-man Normal version of the Baleroc encounter.

    Baleroc is a one-phase encounter that seems very complicated at first, but once you've gotten the jist of what you're supposed to be doing, everything else just kinda clicks into place. You'll need 2 tanks, 6 healers, and a healthy mix of melee and ranged DPS. You want no fewer than 6 of either to make things as simple as possible.

    There are three main mechanics that all work together on this fight, and they're all fairly difficult to understand without first understanding the others. So bear with me as I work through these - everything will make sense at the end.

    Let's look at the tank's job first. The primary mechanic for tanks to handle is a debuff called Blaze of Glory. He'll stack this up periodically on whichever tank he's currently attacking. Each stack increases the amount of physical damage you take by 20%, but also increases your maximum health by 20%. On top of that, whenever he applies a stack of Blaze of Glory, regardless of who he applies it to, he also buffs his own Fire damage by 20%.

    He'll also occasionally use one of two Blade abilities: Decimation Blade makes him attack much slower, but each attack will do either 250,000 damage OR 90% of your health, whichever number is greater. Obviously, if your health is under 250,000, that's a 1-shot, so you'll need a few stacks of Blaze of Glory to survive it. When he uses Inferno Blade, his melee attacks deal Fire damage instead of Physical damage. Basically that means that instead of dealing with the increased physical damage from your Blaze of Glory stacks, you're now dealing with his own increased Fire damage.

    The easiest way we found to handle these mechanics was to have two tanks: one who would only handle Decimation Blade, and another who would tank the boss the rest of the time, including during Inferno Blade. The Decimation Blade tank should pull the boss and only take enough stacks of Blaze of Glory to break the 250k mark. At that point, the other tank taunts and holds onto him. Whenever Baleroc uses Decimation Blade, our Decimation tank taunts, eats the Decimation Blade hits, and then the other tank grabs it back immediately as soon as Decimation Blade ends. This way we have a tank with very high health to be able to survive Inferno Blade, and a tank with much lower health to reduce the amount of healing required for Decimation Blade.

    On to DPS. The mechanics that the DPS and healers will manage on this fight are very closely related, so bear with me if some of this doesn't seem to make sense until I get to the healer section. DPS will be the ones managing the Shards of Torment. These are the little pink crystals you see from time to time. He spawns one shard in melee and one shard at range, usually pretty close to where someone is currently standing. You can tell where a shard is about to spawn by the purple pillar of light that appears.

    Once a shard is active, it'll latch onto whoever is closest and start stacking up a debuff called Torment. Each stack of Torment does an increasing amount of Shadow damage. You want to let this stack up as high as you possibly can, for two reasons. One is that it helps out your healers, and I'll explain why in the healer section. The other is that as soon as the Torment effect wears off, you get a debuff Tormented. It reduces the healing you do by 50%, which is why healers can't take Torment, and it also increases the shadow damage you take by 250%, which is not only why tanks can't take Torment, but means that you can't take it either until the debuff wears off. It lasts just long enough that you'll only be able to reliably take stacks every 3rd shard. It should only take two players to handle each Shard, so that's why you want at least 6 DPS in melee and 6 DPS at range. Oh, and if you try to just outrange the Shard, it starts AOE'ing the crap out of your raid, so make sure you manage Torment properly. We found it easiest to just set up a simple rotation and have everyone pay attention to when the guy before him starts taking Torment. Make sure you're using defensive cooldowns such as Divine Protection and Dispersion as well - it helps a lot.

    As a side note, although the dungeon journal states that you can pass the Tormented debuff to other players by getting too close (that's the one that makes you take extra damage), that wasn't happening for us in our kill. As you can see, we're all just kind of hanging out in melee. Some of us have the debuff and some of us don't. It's possible that that mechanic only occurs on Heroic mode.

    Alright healers, it's your turn. Thankfully, your mechanic is a bit simpler to explain, now that we've laid the ground work. Every time you heal someone who currently has stacks of Torment - that's the DPS debuff we were just talking about - you stack up your own debuff called Vital Spark. This is a good thing. You get one Vital Spark for every 3 stacks of Torment on your target, which is why DPS should be stacking it as high as they can. Note that you only get stacks by using a direct heal - AOE heals won't give you anything.

    Now, why is that a good thing? Well, as soon as you switch over and heal someone with Blaze of Glory -- that's the tank debuff that increases their health and damage taken -- your Vital Sparks turn into Vital Flame, which increases your healing done by 5% for each stack of Vital Spark you had for 15 seconds. As soon as Vital Flame runs out, you get all your Vital Sparks back, so you can continue building it up from where you left off.

    This is how you keep up with the tanks' ever-climbing health pools. As long as the DPS are managing Torment properly, there should only be 3 people taking damage at any point - the current tank, and the two DPS with Torment. So, you can split your healers into groups of 2. At the start, one group should be healing the tank, and the rest should be healing the DPS with Torment to stack up Vital Sparks. Around the same time the DPS do their first Torment swap, the healers should rotate; the two that were healing the tank should start building stacks of Vital Spark, and one of the other groups should move on to the tank. That'll activate their Vital Flame debuff. As soon as that falls off, or is about to, healers should rotate again. The group that's just been building sparks should move over to the tank, and the previous group should begin building sparks again. From then on it's just a matter of rotating every time the current tank healers are about to lose their Vital Flame debuff.

    And that's basically the entire fight! Let's do a quick recap. Tanks, one of you will be holding the boss for the majority of the fight, while the other gets just enough stacks of Blaze of Glory to survive Decimation Blade - that's at least 250k health. Make sure you stay away from the Shards of Torment - you really don't want that debuff.

    DPS, organize yourselves as much as you see fit and make sure you're handling Torment properly. Remember, you want to hold onto it as long as possible so that the healers can build stacks faster - use your personal defensive cooldowns!

    Healers, set yourselves up into groups of 2 and rotate between healing the tank and building up Vital Sparks. And make sure you're watching closely for those purple pillars of light - it doesn't matter how many Sparks you've got if you catch the 50% healing debuff from standing too close to to a Shard.

  2. #2
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    Do you need to kill Alysrazor before Baleroc. Or can you go to Baleroc before Alysrazor?

  3. #3
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    Perhaps you don't know since you did this on 25m, but does anyone know the changes for 10m? Are there really 2 shards happening at once, along with the tank damage?
    Worse than you.

  4. #4
    There is only 1 shard on 10man. As far as I know all other mechanics are the same. Use a 3-healer rotation instead of 6 healers in groups of 2 (or just 2 healers alternating if you can get away with it).

  5. #5
    Thanks for this video, Lore - no offence to the other contributors, but your videos are comfortably the best.
    Unwavering Sentinel: Tales of a Protection Warrior Running Wild.
    http://unwaveringsentinel.blogspot.co.uk

  6. #6
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    Now that I'm raiding again, I am watching videos to prepare and it helps tremendously. Good show, hope we get this clown tonight.

    PS Aliena's UI > Lore's UI

    Just sayin....
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  7. #7
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    It is interesting how they decided to implement a lot of trash, seems to be there answer to counter the inclusion of only 7 bosses for the tier to make the actual raid last longer.

    Despite the QQ cries I doubt Blizzard will nerf the amount of trash until most people are well into the content and it's longevity becomes irrelevant. You also make a great point on how the lack of trash really does mess with the overall feeling of the raid's atmosphere. As opposed to storming through Blackwing Descent's defense it really does feel like Neferian neglected to fortify his fortress for the day lol.

  8. #8
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    I am amazed by the speed Firelands are being cleared...

  9. #9
    There really isn't that much trash, most people have just been trying to kill Shannox first. Either that or they're used to Blackwing Descent and its 1-2 trash pulls per boss, which was stupid. There's no more trash in Firelands than there was in ICC.

  10. #10
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    It is no less dangerous than ICC or Ulduar trash at their inception either, most people get a distorted view of trash based on out-gearing familiar content versus, "Oh dear god, not the turtles!"

  11. #11
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    We did this on 10 man yesterday with just the dungeon journal.

    The mechanics are the same in 10man as in 25man.
    - Only 1 shard as mentioned by lore.

    Rotate everything as described in the video guide and you should be good.


    Trash in front of baleroc isn't that hard. Just keep your char away from baleroc, because you will get hit by little adds spawning from vulcanos knocking you back.
    Setup: 2 tank, 3 healers and 5 dps

    Keep in mind that the shard will always spawn in melee range at the boss. Using the tol barad trinket with any other self defensive cooldowns to handle the torment helps healers A LOT.
    For example a DK with his anti magic shell can stack up to 20+

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    There really isn't that much trash, most people have just been trying to kill Shannox first. Either that or they're used to Blackwing Descent and its 1-2 trash pulls per boss, which was stupid. There's no more trash in Firelands than there was in ICC.
    why the hell would having fewer trash be stupid? explain it to me please.

  13. #13
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    Everything boils down to good healing/tanking/DPS assignment. Make sure to divide your healers in groups and let them take turns in healing the raid/MT. A good guide about this can be found at http://25man.com/firelands/baleroc. This guide shows good pointers for Baleroc. Worth the read!
    Last edited by Yoakie; 07-07-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savante View Post
    why the hell would having fewer trash be stupid? explain it to me please.
    A couple reasons. A) Trash is a time sync that purposefully slows down progression. If you have fewer bosses you need more trash for the time to clear an instance to be roughly equivalent. B) More trasn also increases the chance for crafting patterns. Last tier didn't have any crafted patterns in raid, but now that there are a lot that drop off trash, you need more trash in order to collect them all. If there was only 1 or 2 mobs before each boss would dramatically decrease the probability of getting them per raid lockout. C) Reputation. In firelands there is an associated reputation and trash is a huge part of that. If there weren't any trash, the time it takes to grind the reputation would be incredibly low.

    While I too hate trash and am going to get sick of clearing it really quick, it does serve a purpose. Also, there is a correlation in my head between the worst 2 instances ever and the amount of trash: ToC and TotFW. I actually hate TotFW more than ToC, and neither have trash. Causation might not be there, but the correlation is.

    Edit: if you want to talk more about it send me a PM, but this thread is about Baleroc.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  15. #15
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    Tier 11 had neither reputation gained from trash, nor any crafting recipes. So having fewer trash is NOT stupid. Also "If you have fewer bosses you need more trash for the time to clear an instance to be roughly equivalent. " I dont agree with this opinion. Blizz should not make it equivalent with trash. Having to clear trash because there are fewer bosses is just stupid since I dont think trash is fun as much as boss encounters.
    I'm sure most of the trash supporters are supporting trash with the classic lame "blizz game is too easy now.. back in my days we had to clear 3487 trash to kill a boss ffs" logic. I'm playing since TBC and I dont want blizz to make the game easy mode too but please be reasonable instead of trying to look cool. Encounters are fun. They are not that easy and FUN. Thats what matters, not trash.

  16. #16
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    With how specialized the mechanics are for the boss, it seems unlikely that the trash acts as a good learning area relating the mechanics (like some of the trash in t11 did a great job of). But as someone who hasn't gotten this far yet, I'm curious if tanks are finding this similar to the Chimearon fight if done with one tank eating the breaks. Thanks in advance!

    P.S. The logic of wanting more trash, at least in Lore's case, is more aesthetic than "back in the old days...grumble grumble grumble." Blackwing Descent didn't feel very heroic with a handful of trash packs. I felt more like a burglar taking some poor blokes stuff.

  17. #17
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    But as someone who hasn't gotten this far yet, I'm curious if tanks are finding this similar to the Chimearon fight if done with one tank eating the breaks. Thanks in advance!
    Somewhat the Decimation Blade is definitely the harder to heal blade from what our healers said for most of the fight. Due to having to put out 234k+ healing between the hits. Its very very slow between attacks I think it was like 5 seconds between hits.

    I found that there is some luck to it. Not that its ever not doable but the fight is significantly easier the less decimation blades you get. I had an attempt that I got it back to back as the first 2 blades and it sucks. The reason, every time I tanked the decimation blade I took 1 extra stack of Blaze of Glory (comes between first and second hit). So at the end when I had just under 400k health I was very hard to heal during decimation blade. Haven't tried a fast taunt swap in the middle to avoid but it might be possible but would take good timing.

    In the last 15% of the fight the the MT had so much health and was taking so much dmg that he just became very hard to heal they said. Basically the dmg the MT takes scales slightly faster than the healing buff the healers get. I believe this is also cause when I'd get an extra stack during decimation blade, the boss would deal greater fire dmg but the MT wouldn't have the benefit of the extra health. Our Healers started having troubles at 23 stacks on the MT. I was up to 6 stacks at this point as the OT. He was taking 330k hits during normal periods (no blade active).

    TLDR; yes similar to chimaeron but also different in other ways. I had a 1;30 second period I didn't even have to touch the boss as the decimation tank.
    Last edited by Mahananaka; 07-05-2011 at 10:51 PM.

  18. #18
    Our Holy Paladin was having trouble last week with the Vital Spark stacking and we were at a loss as to why he wasn't gaining stacks like our other healers. I read something during the PTR about Beacon interfering with Vital Spark application if a Paladin healed a player with Torment and a tank with Blaze of Glory at the same time. Is this still the case? Is this working as intended and should he not place Beacon on the tank? Or am I completely misunderstanding the mechanic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Sounds like the guy who ran in front of the train had an even worse week than you guys did.

  19. #19
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    I hear that there's an Enrage ?! Is there in normal mode ? And what type of enrage is it ? (wipes whole raid or members one by one ?)

  20. #20
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    After 6 minutes the boss will go berserk, killing your raid 1 by 1. You may have 10 more seconds until your whole Raid will be dead.

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