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Thread: DeathKnight recently reached the 535 def minimum for Heroics

  1. #1

    DeathKnight recently reached the 535 def minimum for Heroics

    So as the topic says, I've recently reached 537 defense skill using the stone gargoyle rune chant. However, I have just under 20k hp and Healers are finding it difficult to heal me.

    So my question is...What should I be aiming for hp wise and armor wise before I consider tanking heroics?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom Rush View Post
    So as the topic says, I've recently reached 537 defense skill using the stone gargoyle rune chant. However, I have just under 20k hp and Healers are finding it difficult to heal me.

    So my question is...What should I be aiming for hp wise and armor wise before I consider tanking heroics?
    Blizzard generally designs their content in a linear path. Heroics have ILVL 200 gear, so you should have at least the next ilevel under in gear to tank them. Lucky for you gear is VERY easy to come by these days.

    My point is, don't spend time worrying about what armor/hp you should have for heroics. Go out and get some gear. Make a sound spec, glyph it logically, and enchant and gem ALL of your gear (I personally love stam gems). You are generally ready to tank heroics when most of your gear is ilvl 187 or higher. (ilvl 200 or higher for H-TOC)

  3. #3
    Hi dhthomps

    Thanks for the response. I'll have to look at my gear's ilevel later. I think some of my gear may be below ilevel 187. As side note, the only item I have that has a gem slot is my head piece (Tempered Titansteel Helm) which I've put a +24 stam gem in. Once I have more gear with gem slots I'll put something in the meta slot of my helm.

    Will also look into enchanting my gear, but I lack the oh so wonderful resource....gold. Time to start hitting those dailies.

    Anyone else have anything to add to dhthomps post???

  4. #4
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    Yeah tell the healers to stfu! Many are just getting lazy right now because they have tanks with 34k hp unbuffed and can solo half a heroic. When heroics were the place to be I started tanking with maybe 21k hp.

    Right now I tank ulduar and toc and I still occasionally get a healer who will start bashing me in a heroic cause I go down to quick or grumbling that im not d caped, its just them trying to place the blame on you for their suckiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler View Post
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  5. #5
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    Being new to heroics isn't excuse. Problem is, fewer folks run normals currently with the badge changes, and thus that gear is harder to get yet prepares players for heroic content.

    I find that folks rely either on an overgeared healer or an overgeared tank to carry a group through most heroic level content. The logic is if one can carry the weight, it's not 'your' responsibility. However, as I play both sides, I can tell you there are huge differences in how it looks/feels, and the increase difficulty it brings to the 'overgeared' member to compensate for the rest of the group.

    /rantdone.

    My advice is focus on gearing up to 25k, keeping crit immunity (535 defense for heroics), and trying to also keep hit/expertise up as those are important to threat. If that sounds like a lot, it's normal juggling as you gear up. I found on my paladin (pre 3.1) that when I hit ~24/25k, my survivability in pug situations went up rapidly, as I had reached a point where healers had time to land heals. If you run less health, healers are pressured to focus more on you, at the risk of themselves or the group. There are enough random damage effects in game to make healers heal the group, which means tunnel visioning onto the tanks leads to wipes.

    Specific Suggestions:

    Get a Stoneguard Band, socket with a stamina gem (+24 ideally). Notable stamina increase, plus the socket bonus makes it viable even though a 'green'.

    Finish your Wyrmrest grind. The chest/boots on that faction are impressive, and then you can start on the longer term goal of revered Argent Crusade for the helm enchant.

    Enchants - if you can keep crit immunity purely off gear/RotSGargoyle, load enchants with stamina. If you can't get stamina, get +defense as that will improve your avoidance overall, meaning less hits. Related, getting a belt buckle would be another 'enchant', as it would give you a socket to use, and an armor kit for your pants (at the very least, 45 stamina is worth getting).

    Sigil of the Unfaltering Knight is another 'must have' at your level. Again, you're buffing defense, which means more avoidance.

    Finally, consider dropping Acclimation for Blood of the North and/or Hungering Cold. The BotN talent buffs your dps slightly, plus gives flexibility in rotations, whild HC is surprisingly useful when you need a moment to 'get control' on a situation. Acclimation is nice, but I found it 'fight specific'. Heck, half the time, it's up randomly and when I actually want it, the fight mechanics won't trigger it (ie, the effect is a melee attack instead of a 'spell').

  6. #6
    Yeah, under 20k is low for H. I started at 22k and was hard to heal. 25k is about where you stop becoming hard to heal, and is good to aim for as Esch says. Don't forget to check the Tankspot Gearing Guides (scroll down to section 3.1), esp Cider's Easy 540d guide. Several suggestions in there you don't have yet.

  7. #7
    apart from all these wonderful suggestions all i have to say on it is grind your rep for enchants/gear and while you are doing that farm normal instances that have tank gear in them, then once u have that piece, u never have to go back to that normal again!

  8. #8
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    As a Dk, you're gonna feel squishy until you have about 35% dodge/parry and 22k health. It's discouraging, but it's par for the course. I started in heroics at about 19.5k, and felt like a chump, but sticking to the easier instances such as UK, Nexus and DTK on heroic will get you more experience as a tank (As well as a decent tank chest, helm and two rings), and farming regular TotC will get you VERY well geared to get into Naxx. Also, I recommend running a frost build until you get your feet under you because it manages to front-load threat so hard that DPS have difficulty catching up unless they're geared way better. Other than that, grind rep and heroics for better stuff. Just stick with it, and you'll find DK tanking pretty rewarding. Especially proving that DKs aren't worthless, which seems to be the basic global attitude in-game. People still marvel at a frost DK MTing Naxx, with a tankadin as OT when they go on our guild runs.
    ...Thoughts of a philosophical Death Knight...
    If death is the inevitable end of life, is life the inevitable end of undeath?

  9. #9
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    I mt naxx 10 an 23k unbuffed, lazy heals
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler View Post
    I'm on a shark

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramaton View Post
    Yeah tell the healers to stfu! Many are just getting lazy right now because they have tanks with 34k hp unbuffed and can solo half a heroic. When heroics were the place to be I started tanking with maybe 21k hp.

    Right now I tank ulduar and toc and I still occasionally get a healer who will start bashing me in a heroic cause I go down to quick or grumbling that im not d caped, its just them trying to place the blame on you for their suckiness.
    ^ Pretty much that. That has happened to me a lot. A healer will fail to keep me up and then blame me for not being geared properly.

    I'll let you judge for yourself: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Let me just say this. I understand that DK tanks might not be as easy as other tanks. We are avoidance tanks. We don't have block. We have Dodge and Parry (and Def that adds to both). WE are going to get hit, and it's going to happen more often after diminishing returns start kicking in during a long fight. Healers are just going to have to suck it up and get use to it.

    Lately I've made it a point to ask the healer after every run how I did as a tank. Was I easier or harder to heal than another class tank? Almost always I get "MUCH easier", and normally it's "Easier than a warrior, little harder than a pally." Until blizzard buffs us or nerfs Paladins, we are only going to be but so good. My advice to you is to gear up to def, then stack stamina like it's going out of style. The dodge + parry will come with better gear in time. In the mean time, tell the healers that they are going to have to step up their game. The days of sleep healing are over. Welcome to the new world.
    Last edited by Ronnon; 09-14-2009 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Elaboration

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gramaton View Post
    I mt naxx 10 an 23k unbuffed, lazy heals
    That's why I love you, Gram. I'm at 25k unbuffed, so not a big difference there. Gluth could give me a happy lick of greeting and the difference is negated lol.

    Now, back to the OP. 20k-ish HP and reasonably close to 540 def should keep you vertical in a Heroic 5man. If the healer "can't" keep you up, it's not that they can't, it's that they choose not to adapt to the situation, or as Gram put it, just plain lazy. With Emblems of Heroism X'd out in favor of Conquest (Which pissed off a LOT of Ulduar runners, let me tell you lol) people are running Heroics to get gear to make Ulduar easymode, instead of the challenge it's intended to be.

    Also, pugs make things 300% more difficult than they ever should be. They help YOU learn to be flexible as tank, but only through ulcer inducing DPS errors that CAUSE to you adapt. When you pug a 5man, ask for lead so you can mark, and watch as the DPS attacks X instead of Skull. It happens... a lot, and it's excellent practice for guild runs.
    ...Thoughts of a philosophical Death Knight...
    If death is the inevitable end of life, is life the inevitable end of undeath?

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