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Thread: Black Heart over Heart of Iron?

  1. #1
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    Black Heart over Heart of Iron?

    Hi everyone,
    I hope this question has not been asked before. If I overlooked an existing thread, please link it.

    I saw many skilled tanks during the last few weeks, who wore The Black Heart - Item - World of Warcraft plus a Colosseum trinket (e.g. Glyph of Indomitability - Item - World of Warcraft or Satrina's Impeding Scarab - Item - World of Warcraft) though I definitly know they have access to the Ulduar trinkets, especially Heart of Iron - Item - World of Warcraft.

    Why do they prefer an ilvl 200 over a 226ish? I was pretty sure, Ignis' trinket is the better choice but I can't believe, they all do a mistake.

    So what are your opinions?

  2. #2
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    ... the black heart is favored because of the very good proc rate, and because of the massive amount or armor it gives ... also i think the fact that it isn't a use trinket as well would help a few decisions, personally i roll with both on at the same time ... but our guild hasn't had the scarab drop yet so my choices may change at that point .. but atm im very happy with that combo

  3. #3
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    The Black Heart is an AMAZING trinket for its item level. The reason it is amazing is because of the rate with which the proc occurs. If you were to look at your average tanking shield on a warrior or paladin you would see its armor values somewhere in the 7-8k range. When this trinket procs, it acts essentially as if you were putting on a shield for 10 seconds. The nice thing with armor is that even though its value diminishes, it still retains its usefulness in terms of time to live and effective health with the more you get. (Proof of which can be found in the guides section).

    Now when you look at the Ulduar trinkets you will see an enormous amount of Stamina and usually some proc that is related to or associated with avoidance on a 2 minute cooldown. This proc will give several % avoidance for up to 20 seconds on a cooldown that restricts it to being useful only a handful of times in a fight. While this is still very useful, the constant physical damage reduction that the Black Heart is reproducing on a very consistent basis will generally equate to less damage taken from the enemy as a whole (which is a really good thing). The only time this trinket is not almost completely superior to others is when faced with a boss that does alot of abilities that are not physical damage related. Even so, the ~1260ish health that the Black Heart gives, still makes it absolutely awesome.

    If I had to range BiS trinkets for this patch I would select the Black Heart first, with Juggernaut's Vitality (or Satrina's Impending Scarab) second, and the Heart of Iron (from Ulduar) third.

  4. #4
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    Okay, thanks for the answers.
    I'm in possesion of the Black Heart, Heart of Iron and Glyph of Ind.. So I'll equip Black Heart and Glyph for Melee Bosses and Both "Hearts" for Magic-Damage-Bosses?

  5. #5
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    On the other hand, by pushing your avoidance by 10% (which is essentially what happens if you use say, heart of iron and king Llane, you reduce the chance of taking two back to back hits by a fairly significant amount.

    here goes hoping my school maths doesnt fail me now:

    let us assume you have 60% avoidance raidbuffed (fairly typical IMO). A mob has a 40% chance to whallop you with a 30k hit. The chance of it hitting you with two of these hits back to back is (i hope) 0.4*0.4 = 0.16 = 16%.

    now we boost the avoidance to 70%.
    now you have a 30% chance of taking a hit, and a (0.3*0.3= 0.09) = 9% chance to take two hits in a row.

    by increasing your avoidance by 10% you reduce the chance to take back to back hits by 7%. On a boss like thorim that gains haste and damage as the fight progresses this will, in theory, save your life.

    The Black heart's procc is equivalent to approximately 4% melee mitigation @31k armor raidbuffed if I am not mistaken. This is, however a procc, and as such you have zero control over when it becomes active. It may become active right when you need it, true, but it also has an equally good chance to procc when you dont need it: when you just had the mob taunted off you and it proccs from the final hit, great you now how 39k armor that is not doing anything, when you taunt back the procc is on cooldown and is not there when you need it.

    Yes the black heart is a massive boost to EH when it proccs, but you have absolutely zero control over when it proccs; on-use trinkets grant you the power of using them when needed-shield wall is on CD and your healer gets interrupted at ignis, with the black heart you can hope it proccs, with two avoidance use trinkets you can pop them and be relatively sure you will not take life threatening hits back-to-back.

    This is the reason why I have heart of iron and seal of king llane equipped, and not the black heart. Control over what buffs I have.

  6. #6
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    That makes perfect sense Pyrea and is the is counter argument for using the proc based trinkets. With respect to each person's playstyle you can see where choosing trinkets is not nearly as cut and dry as most the rest of the gear in the game. Generally speaking, it depends on how you manage your trinkets (or choose not to) that will determine how useful each one is.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    That makes perfect sense Pyrea and is the is counter argument for using the proc based trinkets. With respect to each person's playstyle you can see where choosing trinkets is not nearly as cut and dry as most the rest of the gear in the game. Generally speaking, it depends on how you manage your trinkets (or choose not to) that will determine how useful each one is.
    Which is why tanking is so interesting

    I played a warlock for 4 years before rerolling tank a couple of months before lich king released and there was always a definitive best in slot "shopping list". The best trinket was this, the best belt was that.

    Gearing a tank is much more dynamic, what is best for one fight may not be best for another. I would never use threat trinkets on a hard hitting boss like vezax, but my darkmoon card gets a dusting at hodir, I may swap single pieces of gear around during a raid evening. Procc trinkets have their place in a though out gear set, quite often they have an extremely powerful "stationary" stat, tied with a procc that can be useful. I place emphasis on "can". Just like the on-use trinkets can be used in different manners.

    Basically it comes down to which boss/mob you are tanking and how you tank when choosing trinkets and other gear. There is the "right" piece for the job, and part of being a great tank is choosing the right gear for the fight (especially as one cannot change most gear after entering combat).

  8. #8
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    /sign Pyrea - controlled buffs>proccs
    You can't please the boss to wait a few more seconds before he hits you hard.

  9. #9
    I'm also part of the on-use trinket brigade.

  10. #10
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    I have the black heart in the bank and wear the heart of iron and the juggernaut's vitality 99% of the fights .

    When im tanking i try to mitigate as much dmg as i can for as long as i can , i mean i have the shield block up for 10 secs out of each 40 (30 soon) then you can use one trinket and after it wears out the other for the hp buff, when the hp buff dissapears ( i mean the faction's trinket hp buff) i can use last stand and then im back to where i can use shield block thats close to 1 minute of time in which i always had something up to help myself survive and hopefully make my healer's life easier. Always with a finger in shield wall just in case ^_^.

    The thing is that activating 2 avoidance trinkets can (and sometimes will ) do nothing for you , you will activate em both , eat 2 back to back 30k hits and elvis has left the building , while the proc on the black heart makes sure you have about 8k armor 10 out of every 50 secs roughly , thats a lot of mitigation so i can see why some ppl favor it over on use trinkets.

    The other point for the black heart is that since it has no use, you know you are always getting 100% of its usefulness i guess, and in fights with short tank rotations (like thorim if you switch every UBS or say gordok the impaler) the 10s out of every 50 of the black heart are actually more like 10 secs out of each 30 , since you dont spend more time tanking.

    Long time reader , first time poster and look what a huge wall of text. sorry

  11. #11
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    In my opinion the black heart proc makes it fantastic and maybe even better than the Heart of Iron. I am pretty sure with the constant proc rate of the Black Heart it would have more EH overall than the Heart of Iron if you put in the average time it is up and the effects it has.

    But what I am going to do is use The Black Heart for fights with alot of physical damage especially physical spike damage and use the Heart of Iron for fights like Ignis with alot of magic damage or a boss fight where there is a small portion of the fight with the majority of the damage so I could use the on use dodge effect. for the Heart of Iron

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