Cloak Enchants

[Quinnly]

Alright so

Im currently at, unbuffed.

24.42 dodge 20.55% parry 552 Defense 26.8k Armor 37,449 health.

I currently have Titanweave Enchanted on my Cloak and am wondering should I put 22 agility on the cloak, 225 armor, or leave Titanweave.

Personally I feel 225 armor is completely useless, but I am open to others opinions.

[krc]

I would get the 225 armor if you think it is completely useless look at the Effective health calculator. In one main tanking set in my opinion effective health(armor and stam) is the most important stats. Armor tends to be much more valuable against stam than the majority of people think.

Agility doesn't give as much armor as most people think and has relatively low avoidance compared to what you be getting in Titan weave.

[Quinnly]

I would get the 225 armor if you think it is completely useless look at the Effective health calculator. In one main tanking set in my opinion effective health(armor and stam) is the most important stats. Armor tends to be much more valuable against stam than the majority of people think.

Agility doesn't give as much armor as most people think and has relatively low avoidance compared to what you be getting in Titan weave.

I just dont see how 225 armor is so useful when the 7k armor proc from the black heart is only 4% Mitigation.

[krc]

I told you go look at the tankspot Effective health calculator if you are gearing for mainly effective health 225 armor has the same amount of effective health added as around 50 stamina.

I would take 50 stamina over 16 defense any day. In my EH set I have about the same amount of avoidance as you and I tried out 16 defense pretty low gain in overall avoidance about the same you are going to get damage reduction from the armor. Only situations where I would take titanweave is an avoidance set for bosses that hit very fast, slow or have an avoidable debuff.

[Wolven]

In mainly Tier8 gear I found that it was very easy to be walking the 540 def line so I ended up having to put Titanweave on my cloak in order to use the Seal of Ulduar, which has no defense rating. After getting a couple of Tier9 tokens though I am now up at 552 def which means that switching cloak enchants can happen easily.

If your defense is really high you should probably look at other things before your cloak enchant, such as your green gems that might be defense+stam. Perhaps those gems can be flipped into Hit+stam gems instead and increase your TPS. With the new epic gemming out, gem sockets have much more impact than enchants which have largely remained the same as when we first got to level 80.

As a side note, I recommend against putting your JC gems in your Monarch Crab trinket. That only gives the illusion that the trinket is better than it is but in reality you can move that 51 stam JC gem into a different socket and realize that a different trinket (The Black Heart) is completely superior and easily farmable.

[brawl]

Also remember that 540 isn't some sort of 'cap' - it's the point at which we become uncrittable, but defense after 540 still gives benefits. There are several posts around that detail how much defense in comparison to dodge/parry you should have.

Honor's Code: [Patch 3.2] Avoidance Nerf

After reading some of these posts, I've realized I could probably benefit from actually adding more defense rather than trying to skim the line of keeping it at 540 at all times.

[Insahnity]

Incidentally, having slightly over def cap does allow you to pick up some items what have less defense (or none whatsoever in favor of stam/dodge/parry/hit/expertise etc.).

I would stick with titanweave.

[krc]

But why use titanweave and not 22 defense on a chest piece if you could be getting more defense with the chest and lose less EH from 275 hp as opposed to 225 armor.

[Insahnity]

Ugh don't get me started on 225 armor or 275 health. Unless its engineering hand enchant, the armor isn't as good as other option, IMO.
As for 275, you are better of removing a defense gem for pure stam while putting 22 def to chest. If you are def capped with no gems, I still say you go with +10 stats.

[Quinnly]

Ok lets say I dont need the defense from any items(currently have it enchanted nowhere).

I have 275 on my health, 18 stam on my shield, and 16 defense on my cloak. Why would 225 armor be better than 22 agility or the minor dodge/parry from 16 defense. Thats more what I was looking for.

[krc]

I think it would be better because of the massive amount of EH you would be getting as opposed 22 agility which only gives less EH than 225 armor and less avoidance than titanweave and titanweave has pretty low avoidance to begin with about the same amount avoidance as you would get damage reduction from 225 armor.

In my most used set I always focus on EH before avoidance and in my opinion that gives 225 armor the edge. I only would really use titanweave for an avoidance set or if i was tip toeing around 540 defense.

[Dragaan]

I just dont see how 225 armor is so useful when the 7k armor proc from the black heart is only 4% Mitigation.

Because that's not exactly how it works.

[Quinnly]

Because that's not exactly how it works.

That was extremely helpful, you could explain why.

[Mert]

This thread details how Armor mitigation works, if you're interested

[gacktt]

I just dont see how 225 armor is so useful when the 7k armor proc from the black heart is only 4% Mitigation.

An indestructible pot gives half of that and gives me over 10% less physical damage taken.

225 armor >>>> titanweave unless you are under the def requirement.

[Martie]

I just dont see how 225 armor is so useful when the 7k armor proc from the black heart is only 4% Mitigation.

You need to check your math on that.

For me, Glyph of Indomitability - Item - World of Warcraft gives me more then 4% mitigation.

What you wanna do is this.
Note down your armor mitigation without the new armor. (Let's say 65%.)
Note down your armor mitigation with the new armor. (Let's say 69%.)
Figure what percentage damage you take with each. (35% and 31%.)
Figure out the difference. (4%)
Figure out what percentage the difference is from the percentage of damage taken without the armor. ( (100/35)*4 = 11.43% )
And you know the actual percentage of physical damage reduction gained when going to the new armor.

[Dragaan]

That was extremely helpful, you could explain why.

Sorry, I went to look for a good thread to link and forgot to come back and edit the post. Looks like someone already did that tho.

[theckhd]

I told you go look at the tankspot Effective health calculator if you are gearing for mainly effective health 225 armor has the same amount of effective health added as around 50 stamina.

I'm not sure where you get the number 50 here. Last time I plugged my stats into the AC:Stam equivalence formula (found here), I came up with roughly 11 armor : 1 stamina, which would put the cloak enchant at around 20 Stamina worth of effective health.

[krc]

I'm not sure where you get the number 50 here. Last time I plugged my stats into the AC:Stam equivalence formula (found here), I came up with roughly 11 armor : 1 stamina, which would put the cloak enchant at around 20 Stamina worth of effective health.

Ah sorry my numbers were a bit off with my current stats in my EH set I only get about 35 stamina worth of EH with a boss level 83 thank you for pointing that out.

[theckhd]

Ah sorry my numbers were a bit off with my current stats in my EH set I only get about 35 stamina worth of EH with a boss level 83 thank you for pointing that out.

That still seems too high. Plugging your armory values into the 11.66*(K+A)/H formula:
K=16635 (fixed)
A=24495
H=34386*1.1 = 37825 (estimate for raid-buffed with kings)

1 Stamina = 12.68 Armor

Note that full raid buffs will change this value slightly, but by less than one armor.

To get 35 stam out of the enchant, I'd need to get down to 6.4286 Armor per stamina, which would require either 74k health, or dropping you down to 4k armor.