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Thread: Coliseum Faction Champions (Hard Mode)

  1. #1
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    Coliseum Faction Champions (Hard Mode)





    Quote Originally Posted by Splug
    Welcome back to the Crusader’s Coliseum raid guide! I am Splug, and in this video I'll be going over our strategy for the heroic difficulty of the Faction Champions encounter. If you'd like more information or would like to learn more about downloading this movie, click "more info" on the movie information box on YouTube to head directly to TankSpot! Also, be sure to subscribe by clicking the Subscribe button to the right so you will be automatically notified as we release movies.
    We initiate the fight by capturing as many of the NPC’s in Hungering Cold as possible. While this does very little to actually slow them down, it does trigger the AI to burn just about every one of their pvp trinket cooldowns, which makes them more susceptible to other forms of control.

    This encounter is very similar to its non-heroic counterpart. No new mechanics are introduced. The opposing team is now immune to fixate effects such as taunt or dark command, and their individual health and damage are increased. All other mechanics and abilities remain constant.

    Our strategy revolves around a one-to-one control plan. Most of the NPC’s have a specific player assigned to control them as best they can. The remaining raid members form the assist train responsible for actually completing the encounter. Particularly, the rogue, warrior, and healers will cause significant problems if allowed to move about freely. For this pull, we assigned a death knight each to chain down the rogue and warrior, a rogue to each of the paladin and holy priest, and three mages to rotate counterspells on the opposing shadow priest and mage. We also had a moonkin assigned to cycloning the opposing deathknight when convenient.

    Our damage order involved reducing the healers first, then removing the core melee damage- the rogue and warrior- and finally burning the casters down in an arbitrary order. The pets were quickly removed shortly after the shaman and totems. Once the healers and melee are dead, the fight becomes a matter of simply cleaning up the remainder one target at a time. Due to the length of time involved in working through the opposing team with several of our own damage down, several repetitive sections in the back half of the encounter will be omitted from the video.

    As mentioned, the rogue and warrior form the largest part of the incoming burst damage. While the enemy casters can provide a fair amount of throughput damage and control, the rogue is capable of killing a mage in a second or two. The players assigned to controlling these two melee will need to be ready to call out their target’s target, as the rogue will be occasionally using cloak of shadows or shadow step, or have the paladin use cleanse or freedom. Whoever the melee are pursuing needs to be very aware of their position and move quickly to kite if the rogue suddenly closes distance.

    From this point on, the encounter is very stable. While the encounter can hectic – especially initially - the majority of it does come down to these simple guidelines: keep their melee under control, prevent the heals, and if the rogue or warrior come running at you, run the other way. Break-on-damage control effects such as polymorph or repentance are largely limited by the chaotic nature of the fight encouraging fan of knives interrupts, as well as their susceptibility to dispel magic. Snares, stuns, and interrupts will prove to be the strongest forms of control.

    Thanks for watching this movie! As per usual, feel free to ask questions or add suggestions either on YouTube or in the strategy thread on TankSpot.com. Also, TankSpot Donors can download all of these movies in High Definition directly from our servers -- click the second link in the movie information box to learn more!
    Last edited by Aliena; 01-25-2010 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #2
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    Controlling the enemy dps proved to be as important as controlling the healers on heroic for my raid tonight. The rogue was a real PITA rapidly killing our clothies. No healing is sufficient to counter the burst, especially if other uncontrolled enemy dps classes focus on the same target, as they usually do. We later tried killing the rogue fast while we kept one healer CCed to minimize his carnage time, but it didn't work out well. We kept losing too many raid members to win the fight.

    I noticed pets were given a rather high priority in the kill order by the Tankspot strategy. Are they really that dangerous? Just like in real PvP, pets are tauntable, so I just had them beat on me for some very welcomed rage.

  3. #3
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    The felhunter has a spell lock, and thus is a concern from a perspective of random annoyance potential. The cat has 300k health, and thus is very easy to remove from the encounter. It wasn't so much that they were major problems as they were readily available low-hanging fruit. The big four that the raid needs to be concerned about are the three healers and the rogue.

    -Splug

  4. #4
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    What the addon in the video which is spamming in party or raid chat about CC/Clodowns used on the mobs? Doesn't look like DBM or I just have an old copy?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabbu View Post
    What the addon in the video which is spamming in party or raid chat about CC/Clodowns used on the mobs? Doesn't look like DBM or I just have an old copy?
    The party messages are interrupt notifications, I think most of the guild uses Afflicted for that, but I understand there are multiple class-specific mods that do it as well. The CC-break notifications are Big Brother.

    -Splug

  6. #6
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    Guild progression

    For some odd reason we managed to 1 shot the 10man hard mode version.
    Even in the 10man, the rogue hits suprizingly hard. Even after taking down 2 targets and a pet, he still managed to dropped one of our healers.

    Making "/target /cast" marcros put us over the top for things like sheeps and fears.

    The pet was our second target so i didn't notice, but does anyone know if the pets are tauntable?

  7. #7
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    The pets can be taunted, but they will reset threat to a random target shortly after the taunt.

    -Splug

  8. #8
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    My guild took our first look at the 10-man heroic version the other night. We ran out of time in our raid, but for the time we spent, we noticed a pattern. We seemed to be able to control the fight pretty well while we burned down the first healer. However, as soon as that healer went down, it was like all of the other mobs reacted and instantly started focus-firing targets, burning down two or three people in a very short span. We tried different combinations of control/zerg, but couldn't find a successful mix where we could keep the fight under control but still bring targets down.

    While I think we can do a better job overall next time we try, I was wondering as a starting point - does anyone have any insight into what a good mix of control vs. focus might be for the 10-man?

  9. #9
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    Faction Champs achievment

    Im curious to find out if anyone has gotten this achievment? is there a simple way to do this? my guild has tried to aoe them all down at once but that caused major damage to the whole raid. We tried assigning one person to each mob that that worked out even worse. getting them all down within 60 seconds of each other has proved to be more challenging than we had originally thought. any tips?

  10. #10
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    The npc's will always fixate on one target. The target is random, but them all picking the same player is not. You'll want everyone to put one of them on focus, and if your name shows up in the focus-target list, just drop everything and start kiting the melee. The ranged damage is quite healable, the melee is not.

    More than likely, the delay you see while killing the first healer is travel time while the rest of them get to the raid. The ADD target changes result in them taking a while to actually make it into range of their targets, especially with snare and control effects going.

    Oh- we deprioritized the pets a bit more than I originally had in the video. They're really a non-issue, and while low-hanging fruit, aren't worth killing before the melee. Getting the fight down to one healer and carving out the melee NPC's should be your highest priority.

    -Splug

  11. #11
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    This night i was as war tank and i had all mobs on me for a lot of time...



    It is normal or i had luck?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlink View Post
    This night i was as war tank and i had all mobs on me for a lot of time...
    It is normal or i had luck?
    That also happened to us, on some trys i got agro of almost every boss, but at irregular intervals.

    I got three possible theories:

    1- Some bosses (hunter mage warrior and rogue) focus the player with least % life.
    2- Because it was me who pulled, there could be some bug to make them focus me over other people.
    3- Luck? God exists?

    Log: Try 4, 14 and 18

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furyna View Post
    Im curious to find out if anyone has gotten this achievment? is there a simple way to do this? my guild has tried to aoe them all down at once but that caused major damage to the whole raid. We tried assigning one person to each mob that that worked out even worse. getting them all down within 60 seconds of each other has proved to be more challenging than we had originally thought. any tips?
    your first mistake is AOE, if you look at their buffs, AoE does 75% less dmg to them for the whole fight.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsherman View Post
    That also happened to us, on some trys i got agro of almost every boss, but at irregular intervals.

    I got three possible theories:

    1- Some bosses (hunter mage warrior and rogue) focus the player with least % life.
    2- Because it was me who pulled, there could be some bug to make them focus me over other people.
    3- Luck? God exists?

    Log: Try 4, 14 and 18
    they tend to focus someone once someone gets below 80% health.

  15. #15
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    When my group did this heroic on 10 I went arms spec but with a one hander + shield. I love that mix of mortal strike and having shield bash.

    Anyway, not sure if it's a bug or what but I was disarmed during one pull and my sword, shield, and gun were transferred into my bag! Good thing I had space!

    This happen to anyone else?

  16. #16
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    What addon are you using Splug for your minimap. It seems like a blue circle rotating in the map with an aura circling the outside.
    Very impressive....please share the details with me.
    Last edited by samskara; 10-13-2009 at 05:41 PM. Reason: spell check

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by samskara View Post
    What addon are you using Splug for your minimap. It seems like a blue circle rotating in the map with an aura circling the outside.
    Very impressive....please share the details with me.
    Sexymap?

    Plenty of add-on threads to find that easy answer! :P

  18. #18
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    Yeah, the minimap mod is Sexymap. I don't use it for anything other than looking cool, but it's good for that.

    Just to throw a few things out after grinding this fight for a few more weeks (rather than just putting the video up the first week hard mode was open):

    * Keeping the encounter under control largely hinges on locking down the melee. The bulk of the other team's damage comes from these guys catching up to someone and just shutting them down in a GCD.

    * Death Knights are excellent for locking down the warrior, death knight, or enhancement shaman. Protection warriors are well-suited to the rogue (who is often immune to chains of ice due to cloak, and cannot be death gripped in response as that's needed for shadowstep) and retribution paladin, and otherwise almost as good as deathknights on the other three.

    * If the melee are under control, the next goal is to keep cleanses going. The shadow priest and warlock can do a lot of damage if allowed to stack DoT's up, but removing them is a fairly simple matter.

    * We've found a kill order of two healers -> two or three melee -> other healer -> other melee -> pets & ranged damage to be the most effective. With all three healers sneaking casts and buffs between interrupts and control, it takes so long to bring down the melee that it's almost as fast to just outright focus burn the healers first. (In a 10-man raid, "other melee" and "other healers" don't exist any more... so skip straight to burning the two ranged.)

    * Out of the healers, we prioritize killing the shaman -> priest -> druid -> paladin. In any given run, three out of the four will be present in 25 and two out of the four in 10.

    -Splug

  19. #19
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    I recently respec'd my prot warrior for this encounter because we are working on insanity in our 10m.

    I took the talent No-one EVER takes... Safeguard. AND DAMN IS IT OVER POWERED!
    I also took piercing howl, imp. spell reflect, imp. disarm, and Tactical Mastery.

    One common mechanic I see over and over again in Faction Champions is the "DPS FOCUS". The Faction Champion DPS will simultaneously refocus their aggro on a single player in your raid and try to burst them to death. (they pick a target at ~<80% health

    To counter this effect, I write a focus intervene macro. Then I focus the rogue or warrior. Make sure your Focus' target is visible on your raid frames. Whenever they switch targets I do my best to intervene, drastically lowering the damage my raid member takes. The rest of the time I kite the warrior / rogue around with piercing howl, spamming spell reflect every chance I get. Oh, I also disarm our current burn target for the 20% extra damage taken.

    Last week I intervened 22 times, spell reflected 108 spells, and cast piercing howl over 150 times on heroic 25m.

    Further we assign our healers with really good burst HPS (disc. priests, paladins) to heal the target of a specific faction champion using a mouseover macro. Usually the rogue or warrior.

    We always burn a healer, then all the dps. We stun lock one healer, and let the 3rd run around (usually the druid is free or banish / feared the whole time. Warlocks pwn tree druids.). We use alternating CC's on a few of the more dangerous DPS.

    99.9% of this fight is kiting, if you are being attacked you have to run-away; snare, cc, or whatever else is required to give you a gap, and start kiting.

    Be a Champion, not a hero.
    Drae

    http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1454507.jpg


  20. #20
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    We had our go at the Faction Champs tonight in our 10m HC run.
    Our setup:
    Healers: Druid, Shammy, Holy Priest
    DPS: Feral War (PvP Spec, PvE gear) 2xDK's, Hunter, Warlock, 2xRet Pallies.
    and yes, we didnt have any tanks, our War and Pally tanks respecced to dps for this.

    Boss setup:
    Holy Pala, Druid Healer, Shadow Priest, Hunter (with cat pet), DK, Enh Shammy.

    What we tried:
    Nuke Pally healer -> Druid -> Shammy -> DK -> clean up.
    That failed
    Tried two more tries nuking either Pally or Druid healers down first, but the Shammy, DK and combined with the SP's MF just nuked our clothies down in no time.
    Then we decided on a different tactic:
    Nuke -> Shammy -> DK -> SP -> Hunter -> pet -> Druid -> Pally.
    Prot War on druid interrupt, 1xPally keeping the DK busy and shouting when he changes target. 1xDK on the Pally healer trying to keep him from healing.
    I (Holy Priest) was on mass dispell for shields and BL. Druid was on banish of their druid when it was possible to let or warrior get some more dps in on the kill target.
    On the first try, we got the shammy down, but then we got downed.
    Second try went much better and we downed them all.

    The reason why we went with this tactic is that we saw that the melee are killing our clothies way too fast, specially when they all target one. So we decided that because the melee's hp is the same as the healers, we might as well get their dps down first and then do the clean up, which meant better survivability for us.
    This worked out well for us and we will test it out on future runs with the other class that can be part of the opposition.

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