Need Help to Help my DKTanks

[Fulcrum]

Hello Gentlemen and Ladies - this is my first post on these forums, but I've been reading for about 3 years now.

I currently have a DK in my guild that I am trying to help and improve his TPS, below are links to his armory, WWS stats and TPS breakdown

Armory Profile
WWS stats vs Kologarn
TPS Breakdown vs Kologarn

Now I understand threat is not too much of an issue on Kologarn, I used the boss as an example because I felt that was a pure way of figuring out the full tps that he does. On average his TPS ranges from 3-5k thats on trash and bosses alike. As a prot pally, even giving him ample time 5-10seconds before I even do an auto attack, I can easily rip aggro the same thing happens when a prot warrior is tanking with him. How can this DK up his base threat to 5-8k? What should his rotations be? Is it a spec issue and if so what needs to be changed?

Thanks again, and sorry about the post, I am 100% ignorant on DK tanks so I come to you all for the answers

~Fulcrum

[Theotherone]

Okay, stupid question, but I have to ask, his he in frost presence while he's tanking? I in no way intend this question to come off as condesending or insulting in the least, it's just that sometimes the obvious gets overlooked. I assume he is, but hey, you never know.

Also, hit seems low at 208, he seems to miss a fair amount of his swings. At his gear level he should at least be hit capped. Expertise is a bit low too, but I'm a fan of strength, so others could give more input on this. I know stamina has become all the rage, but we still need to hit what we swing at to generate threat so three Rigid Kings Amber will put him over the cap.

I can't comment on talents, since I'm a frost tank and have never tried the other trees for tanking. I tend to stay with what I'm comfortable with and understand.

[Edgewalker]

Hello Gentlemen and Ladies - this is my first post on these forums, but I've been reading for about 3 years now.

I currently have a DK in my guild that I am trying to help and improve his TPS, below are links to his armory, WWS stats and TPS breakdown

Armory Profile
WWS stats vs Kologarn
TPS Breakdown vs Kologarn

Now I understand threat is not too much of an issue on Kologarn, I used the boss as an example because I felt that was a pure way of figuring out the full tps that he does. On average his TPS ranges from 3-5k thats on trash and bosses alike. As a prot pally, even giving him ample time 5-10seconds before I even do an auto attack, I can easily rip aggro the same thing happens when a prot warrior is tanking with him. How can this DK up his base threat to 5-8k? What should his rotations be? Is it a spec issue and if so what needs to be changed?

Thanks again, and sorry about the post, I am 100% ignorant on DK tanks so I come to you all for the answers

~Fulcrum

1. 8K is an extremely high goal for a single target tank.
2. Kologarn is an absolutely atrocious example for a WWS breakdown.
3. You haven't given us a comparison to your gear, or the prot warrior's gear.
4. 5 seconds to auto attack isn't a lot on a rune based recharge system that depends on RS for a majority of threat.

5. For the DK himself, tell him to switch to Shieldwarder Girdle with 10 Hit/15 Stamina Gem (purchasable with badges), switch his glove enchant to +15 Expertise, and start eating Rhinolicious Wyrmsteaks. Should get him to 26 expertise and close to hit cap.

6. He has terrible glyphs. Drop Glyph of Death and Decay and Glyph of Disease for Glyph of Death Strike and Glyph of Rune Strike.

7. Tell him to open with Death Strike - Heart Strike - Heart Strike, then apply diseases and go from there. Helps with snap agro if that's the issue.

[Fulcrum]

so the 3-5k threat range is where he should be? I also used kolo as the example figuring that it was the only boss that he could just dump on and I could get some figures

Im not trying to compare him to me or the prot warrior too much. I just want his threat up but...heres my armory and heres the prot warriors armory

[dhthomps]

Spec is fine, gear is fine (if on par with the warrior and pally as others have mentioned). Glyph of Rune Strike, Death Strike, and (arguably) Disease are considered some of the best TPS glyphs.

3-5k is not bad, but there's certainly room for improvement.
First: Make sure they're using Death Runes for Heart Strike, the value is imcomparable.
Second: Do not let diseases fall off.
Third: Make sure they're spamming buttons to beat the lag monster and not waste valuable dps time.
Fourth: Macro rune strike to a few major strikes, I have mine macro'd to Icy Touch, Death Strike, and Heart Strike but there's nothing to say you shouldn't macro more.
Fifth: Make sure he uses ERW on the pull, this will give a good boost of threat.


Anecdotal experience in my guild - pally gets the aggro in the first 30 seconds of the fight, I will eventually catch up as the rune strikes pile up (as the above have mentioned this is a monstrous proportion of blood TPS). Snap aggro is not one of the advantages of a blood DK.

[Esch]

so the 3-5k threat range is where he should be? I also used kolo as the example figuring that it was the only boss that he could just dump on and I could get some figures

First off, Edgewalker is... direct , but does raise good points. Glyph of Deathstrike would be a much better option for threat, especially later in fights where the DK can keep threat up. I personally favor Glyph of Disease, but it is playstyle preference. Death and Decay is only going to be worth it if you can get it down and keep mobs in it, which can be difficult on 'mobile' fights.

DKs rely far more heavily on hit/expertise then warriors/paladins, as only Rune Strike and DnD are passively hitting targets. Everything else has to hit the target, and all melee hits (other than RS) have to deal with parry/dodges. Furthermore, initial DK threat generation is 'weak' as everything is diseased based. A comparison is if you generated threat based on the number of SoV/Sunders on a target. The DS/HS/HS rotation Edge mentions is worthwhile, especially if you follow it with Empower Rune Weapon (5min CD, 25 RP + refreshes all runes) to enable spamming Heart Strike at the start of a pull.

As such, since there are real possiblities to be parried, dodge or flat out miss, a lot of threat is being lost. Gear wise, you're looking like a Uld10 group, which limits some options for improving gear quickly.

Solutions:

Group the DK with a Draeni for the 1% hit aura. Eating a +hit food would also help, such as Snapper Extreme (40 hit/40 stamina). Note that if you can gem/'group' to hit cap, you can eat expertise foods to help with that issue, which leads to...

Expertise. Buffing Expertise is either very easy or very hard, depending on what gear you have access to. Though several weapons exist with a lot of expertise like Worldcarver, most are 25 man drops. Ulduar DK tier gloves/legs give a lot of expertise, so killing Mimiron/Freya may be 'easy' places to pick up expertise upgrades. If you're really wiling to push, you can farm Heroic Magister's Terrace (I'm serious ) for the Shard of Contempt (44 expertise + 230 AP proc, trinket). I've considered taking the time as I think it's still decently itemized for DKs compared to the Mark of Norgannon (Malygos 25, 69 expertise, haste proc).

Spec: Nothing 'wrong'. I find the tank spec reasonable and solid, with what I consider core abilities. This looks largely to be gear and maybe playstyle issues.

In summary, getting hit/expertise up would improve the threat significantly.

[Aurelia]

I really have to agree about that Glyph of Death and Decay, its really kinda wasted - be better off with the Glyph of Rune Strike.

Also, just looking at those stats, it seems like he's not getting many rune strikes in. I'd pretty much be willing to single that out as the reason why his threat is lacking - he should macro Rune Strikes onto all his main rotation abilities - Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Heart Strike, Death Strike - and then see what it does for his threat. =)