Hey, could someone post what HP mobs have in heroic (25) so we could count exactly how much dps is required, cheers
We got to Icehowl on 10m heroic... But we were having a problem.. When he would knock us back to the wall and charge at someone, he would curve off and follow whoever was trying to run away.. Anyone else had a similar problem?
Hey, could someone post what HP mobs have in heroic (25) so we could count exactly how much dps is required, cheers
Just to add to this thread, we're a pure 10man guild and just downed Northrend beasts after 5 attempts. Here's what we learned:
- Impale hurts, we were swapping out on two stacks (preferably wait until the he is about to go for a third before the second tank taunts off the first time ~22 -24 seconds left call out the taunt.)
- Gormak can't be disarmed (as stated) and also has a buff on him that can't be dispelled which increases his normal physical damage by alot over time. Just as a fore-warning
- The paralytic poison takes effect quicker, make sure everyone is on the move.
- In the ice howl phase, when he does his knock back, no-one receives any speed bonus as you do on the normal, so you have to be quick.
Apart from these be aware that there is alot of damage coming in. Be prepared.
Last edited by Eraser; 09-02-2009 at 08:36 AM.
something makes me think that the northrend beasts encounter will have a major nerf to the enrage timer seeing as we had 5 of our guilds top dps doing 4.5k+ with 2 doing almost 5.5k. both of our attempts we got to icehowl we hit the hard enrage with about 3-5% left on his hp bar and the second time we got him down. but with the way the knockback+charge works without the speed buff, if you have any sort of lag you will get hit, he will enrage, and you will probably wipe to being down a player/a tank dieing.
jaraxxus was yes, unfortunately a joke after we realized what was different. once the first portal spawned i called out "it has a health bar, kill it." and we went on and wiped because we didn't realize the same with the volcano. second attempt we killed him fairly easily.
faction champion, as expected though, was a hard slap in the face. we had our planned CCs to go off, had everyone ready, and then we pull and nothing remains CCd for more than a GCD. its a real PVP fight now with opponents who got their trinkets out. the biggest problem we saw was we had 4-5 members of our raid chain CCed by the lock/boomkin/mage/rogue combo of dps we were up against and a resto shaman that didnt want to get interrupted and die. as for specs for this fight it seems that they have
-50% more hp,
-possibly that much more damage dealt,
-trinkets to break initial CCs on them
-faster reaction times to aggressive CCs(BoPs/dispells faster than a human could do it)
-more coordination on their own CC
Consolidating things that need to be added to the thread:
Beasts: Both jormungar need to die simultaneously, or the enrage will wipe (can't ignore it like on normal). No speed boost.
Jarjarbinxus: Portals/Volcanos need to be killed.
Faction Champs: All have their trinkets, and are immune to taunt so taunt doesn't work as crowd control.
Some of my own notes:
Valkyrie: Surge of Darkness is an old ability, isn't it? That's the one where you need to switch portals and run back, ready to switch again after
Anub: Spider Frenzy is in normal, isn't it? That's why you tank the adds apart? Also note that the leach increase also means that Anub is healing himself faster, so even more DPS is needed (seems obvious, but may be overlooked).
A few things I noticed from last night:
- The fight is all about correct dps split and realizing the damage trend switches from spikey raid damage to spikey tank damage.
- We keep 3 dps (usually melee so there's less raid dmg at the start from the stomp) on Snobolds.
- If a snobold lands on a melee they go dps the boss and a range picks up on the snobold so we always have 2 dps on boss, 3 on snobold.
- I wanted to add that it's very bad to bubble the Snobold or let the person with it on them die. This means it goes back to the boss, and will eventually jump back to your raid. Since every time a Snobold jumps off his back his damage is increased by 45%, this will most likely be a wipe.
- We range tank stationary Jormunger. It helps since sweep is basically a threat drop.
- When Dreadscale is mobile and Acidmaw is alive we tank swap Dreadscale. The tank not currently tanking is responsible for bringing burning bile to the poison. This allows 100% dps time and 100% healing time. It's also less frantic.
- You definitely do NOT have to kill them together. If healers can heal through gornakk they can heal through the enrage.
- Rediculous. I watched our mage not even recover from stun before he was hit by charge.
- We ended up making sure everyone was positioned near the door he comes in. It seems like you have more time to move when everyone is along the door. Just don't get hung up on the door corners.
- Lock portal is cheating...
- Nothing new. We never saw the curse. Ridiculously easy when you compare it to beasts...
- 1 shot. Kiting becomes more important, but no less difficult. Immune to taunt is annoying as we had our prot pally stuck as prot which provided no benefit since he has no slow.
- We find it extremely beneficial to leave 1 healer up and get the melee targets down asap. We run with an enhance shammy, though, which makes focused, ranged interrupts super easy.
At any rate, I hope this helps some people. We stopped on Valkyrs due to it being really late (Shadowmoon was down until 9 server time, joy). The fight is a bit different, and will require a different means of dealing with the shield/heal.
- Surge is raid wide damage. Bring shadow and fire damage mitigation, and be ready for steady raid damage.
- The orbs hurt. Good ways to mitigate these would really help.
- The damage the shields mitigate is ridiculous. It may be necessary to have all dps switch attunement and help.
- The touch spell requires you to switch your attunement. It's randomly targetted, and it either is a very short debuff or it falls off as soon as you switch.
Last edited by Antimonic; 09-02-2009 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Added tidbit about Gornakk.
For the wurms, the enrage tooltip said 50% extra damage. Is that really unhealable? They seemed to be hitting for about 13k a pop on 10.
Not sure why but it seems that "cleave" abilities used on boss will not deal damage to snobolds, but while used on them will damage boss. Fan of knives didnt hit them either. Becouse of that we had to put melees on them, using stuff that might hit boss as well.
How do you handle snobolds? Splash dmg, assigned players, all melee? And if you assign people then how many?
Still quite a way for us to go to beat this, but finally something funny in wow too do :)
On 10-man we are having problems with Icehowl, the charge seems to kill ~75% of the people chosen. People are using aspect of the pack or body and soul or something like that?
The first mini-bosses are controled now, but we needed 1 hour to get to Icehowl consistentely.
iamwengry: we asign all the melee to them in 10-man (2-3). I don't know if in 25 is enough to kill them.
Follow the Moeko Principle.
We are having the same problem mentioned above with icehowl hitting everyone he has charged. We did nto have a single wipe on the first 2 beasts but for some reason every single charge of icehowl has hit someone. The people I have brought in have been the same 10 we have ran ToC with every week(we are a 25 man guild) and I think from the day release up to anub kill we had 2 maybe 3 wipes. Is there any other trick rather than the door he comes in at? Didnt try that and I cant comment if they are slightly slow or not as I have not been targeted.
We had a few attempts where something funky happened on Icehowl's charge. Either he did NOT go straight to the wall, or he kept everyone stunned up until he was already almost to the wall hitting people (which ends in a wipe either from the tank dying or from the lost dps from not getting that stun phase). We were using pack, and after a handful of p3 attempts we finally downed him. The enrage timer is really unforgiving tho, as we had maybe 1 or 2 ppl die over the whole fight (and brez'd them shortly after) and Icehowl still enraged at 8%.
As for the worms, we spent all of Tuesday night killing the worms together and it was really, really messy. Tonight (wed.) we killed acidmaw first and were able to repeatedly get to Icehowl in good shape and finally beat the encounter. I wouldn't suggest trying to bring the worms down at the same time, you will have lots of trouble. This is all on 25man, but I'm sure it still applies to 10man also (haven't tried 10man yet so I can't say for sure).
Once you get the first fight down, Jaraxxus and even the faction champs don't pose too much of a problem. As for twins.... well I'll find out on Sunday. : O
Last edited by Dragaan; 09-03-2009 at 04:13 AM.
Indecisive are a primarily 25 man guild with 10 mans run on a more social basis. Being an EU realm we got ToC10 finished off on Wenesday.
Non-heroic is laughably easy. We took two groups; one of which one-shotted everything but Anub-who died on the second attempt-and another which took a little longer due to connection issues. We were very happy when we first stepped into heroic. Finally Blizzard had decided that the free loot just wasn't happening any more. We soon changed our mind.
Gormok was a simple encounter, with some very obvious buffs. His impale hurts more, he hits a bit harder, and the snobolds are little buggers. Not to mention that the fir does more damage and leaves a stacking debuff.
Dreadmaw and Acidmaw are similar to the normal versions; but with more damage and less time to cleanse the poison.
Icehowl, was ridiculous. On our first attempt at getting him down we took him to 3% before his true enrage, which was fair enough, we'd been ill prepared. After another wipe or two, we took him to 6% as he hit the wall for the 3rd time. There was nobody in front of him, and nobody even in his hitbox by the time he hit the wall. Somehow he managed to hit our priest who was about 20 yards clear of him; so he soft enraged, then immediately har enraged, losing us the kill.
Faction champions was really tricky for us last night on 10-man. We breezed through the same combination on normal mode but on heroic, they just beat us down a lot.
On their side they had the priest and the paladin healer, the enh shaman, rogue, mage and druid.
No matter what we were doing it was crazy. Our mage was kiting the rogue around but the enh shaman was just going mental and dropping totems and interrupting people and beating down on people fast. Our healers were almost permanently cycloned by the Druid, the mage was doing about 40k of damage to me in my tank gear in under 2 seconds with arcane blasts and arcane barrage.
Not sure if it was just a really bad group we encountered, but I was cursing at Blizzard last night because we just couldn't do anything with them irrespective of which order we tried to kill them in. The amount of damage we were getting in was insane and it was taking ages to take the healers both down since CC seemed to be lasting no time at all.
We took 4 attempts on the beasts (figuring out how to handle Icehowl and learning how to strafe again from stuns ) and 2 attempts on Jaraxxus but we really hit a brick wall with the selection of mobs for the faction champions.
We are having some trouble with Northrend Beasts. Mainly on Kobolds handling/Icehowl charge.
Regarding the Kobolds, have any of you tried to DPS'em down on the Boss back instead of waiting for them to jump off? Any success with that? I'm trying to be creative here because they love healers, and the P1 being healing intensive as it is... its really jeopardizing to have a healer being chain targeted by the kobolds. As we are melee heavy, currently, we are having the kobold target run to the back of the boss and get the kobold killed by the melee.
When are you using heroism? Currently we are using it on phase 2, and burning Acid. I do understand that the more "helpful" heroism would be during an Icehowl's missed charge. It's just that we might not have enough DPS to burn worms down before Icehowl shows up.
Just as reference, I've looked at our logs and it seems like the milestones for the fight are:
2.5 Minutes into the fight, Worms will come.
5.5 Minutes into the fight, Icehowl will come.
8.5 Minutes into the fight, Icehowl's enrage.
Appreciate any input you guys might have here.
Its a balancing act between DPSing the Kobolds and Gormok. First attempt we focused too much on Gormok and the worms spawned about 10 seconds before we killed him. Next attempts we were just nuking down the Kobolds with a couple of ranged.
We were then burning Acidmaw down and didnt feel any need to use anything other than normal tanking and DPS for the other worm. He was dead with about 20 seconds left before Icehowl would have appeared automatically (unfortunately, you don't get a break!). If its taking much longer than that you might need to monitor your DPS a bit more closely. Also, we're running with 2 healers only.
We saved bloodlust (or heroism in your case) for Icehowl when he was stunned due to him taking a lot more damage. I guess it's personal preference really. Healers can DPS icehowl as well in P3 if the raid is topped off quick. The thing we found was the key to the Icehowl charge was not to try and turn with the camera but to strafe left or right instead and make sure that before the knockback we weren't going to get caught on any pillars.
Well tanking Gormak last night he has a nasty habit during the last round of taunts of hitting for 38k Impale, 15k Melee and 10k bleed tick.
I know a few times even with last stand up (hitting near 70K) I would just drop with parses not adding up. We chalked it up to lag or an "invisible" hit.
Our DK was seeing this too, where all the combat log would show is a 38k impale hit then death. 100%->0 in one impale.....
Even going through the standard ui combat log, the damage did not add up to lethal.
Just curious if any other tanks were seeing this in 25?
Notes from last night (All 25m related)
- We were using 3 tanks with 2 debuff switches but I really want to move to only 2 tanks. However, the one time we tried to do it a 4th debuff + 1 melee hit ended up 1 rounding me. Is there a good rotation for 2 tanks with 2 bops to remove the debuffs?
- There are only 4 snobolds total, and each snobold buffs his damage.
- We leave 1 up if its on melee and just kill it during the transition between p1/p2, gives more dps on the boss.
We lust and burn down acidmaw then focus on dreadscale. The enrage only hits hard when dreadscale is mobile (as he melees instead of just spitting). Just have tanks/external cooldowns when tanking the mobile version and it is easily healable.
We consistently get to icehowl with everyone alive and before he comes out on his own. However, we have found at least 2 bugs with this encounter. First, I've witnessed him turning while running at the wall and hitting someone who was clearly away from their original position. Second, there is no true consistency between the time he starts running and the time the stun fades. I've been able to run before he charges on one attempt and couldn't run until he was half way across the room on another...