Shaman tanking?

[Fetzie]

If a rogue could tank BT at level 70 why can't a shaman tank?

Those rogues had stacked agility and dodge rating to reach 100% avoidance against bosses, same went for the cat druids who tanked stuff. the only reason they survived was because it was impossible for the boss to actually hit them.

[tmweb95]

the only reason that rogue could tank BC is becuase he had an 88% dodge rating, i no it sounds impossible, but he stacked all agility and dodge, and came up with about 1300-1500 agility, and 88% dodge
i think a shamman could tank a little less relient on dodge then that.

[Warloco]

the only reason that rogue could tank BC is becuase he had an 88% dodge rating, i no it sounds impossible, but he stacked all agility and dodge, and came up with about 1300-1500 agility, and 88% dodge
i think a shamman could tank a little less relient on dodge then that.

It wasnt because he had 88% dodge, it was because his total avoidance was above 102.4% fully buffed. He couldve had 95% dodge, if he had less than 102.4% avoidance he couldnt have tanked gruul.

[Toushiro]

Untouchable Rogue 1: Mother Shahraz By Gaeowyn - World of Warcraft Movies

[Ion]

There's a shaman on my server who tanks (opposing faction so I can't talk to him), I see him running around with tank shield and mace. He has Starcaller title so I assume he knows what he's doing.
The thought of healing a shaman tank makes me cringe though.

I have a tank shield (Barricade of Eternity - Item - World of Warcraft actually) on my shaman and if I were a bit more enthusiastic about ulduar I'd probably have a tanking mace too. That doesn't mean I intend to tank anything.

Hell, our mage has a tanking sword with blade ward on it...I don't think you expect mages to be tanking anything...

[palmar]

Hello, I'm new to these forums.

Instead of thinking whether or not it's doable, I have decided to take the "until I hit a wall" approach. As you can see by checking my armory, my character is still grinding the starter set by dps-ing and healing in instances and pvp. I have tanked VH normal and nexus normal while leveling, but I'm not ready for anything else just yet. I only hit 80 last Saturday, so the project is in it's infant stages. I might keep this thread bumped in the future, let's make it a mekka for shaman tanking discussion.

Inb4: legion of captain obvious's greatest men shows up to tell us it's not viable, and to reroll a proper tanking class... NO SHIT?

Right, I'll start the discussion by adding what I consider to be the bare minimums for starting out a similar project of mine, what gear to look for, and what spec to use.

I'll start by listing the gear I've deemed minimum requirements for starting out as a shaman tank, doing the easiest heroics.

Head: Deadly (preferably furious) Glad's helmet with 32stam/2% armour meta and AC enchant
Neck: any generic tanking necklace
cloak: any generic tanking cloac
Shoulder: Any enhancement pvp shoulderpad, sons of hodir blue enchant
chestpiece: any enhancement pvp shoulderpad, health or defense enchant
Bracers: Titan-forged enhancement with 40 stamina
gloves: deadly or furious gloves with armsman on it (even though the parry gets wasted)
Belt: any pvp enhancement belt
Legs: titan-forged enhancement leggings with 55stam/22agi
boots: any pvp enhancement boots with greater fort (22 stam)
rings: Tanking rings, preferably with armour on them
Trinkets: the black heart, and random for the other spot.

shield: Any tanking shield
Weapon: the best caster mace you can find

This starter set will give the shaman that wants to start out his tanking carrier the tools he needs to do the job. It includes the resilience bonus from two pvp pieces (head/gloves) it has the two best titan-forged items for 55 marks (legs/bracer) and the rest can be filled up with cheaper pvp items like hateful, savage or swiftarrow. Tanking accessories can be found on the AH and for badges.

Finding the mace is the biggest problem. Wraith strike is awesome, and so is titansteel guardian (I may grind the mats for a titansteel guardian). You want a slow caster weapon to maximize flametounge damage.

The resilience and defense from tanking items need to bring you to the cap. Getting crit isn't going to help with my already shitty hp-pool. Stick stamina in everything to start with. later, when you get phat tank-epics and many hate-tells, you can start gemming for agility too to add tps and avoidance.

You will take more damage than a normal tank, and you will have more problem holding aggro.

Stamina and Armor are the biggest stats. We can't afford to go with all the fancy stuff other tanks get. We need to strive just for our basic ability to soak up damage. Stamina and Armor should be taken wherever we can fit it.

Next come TPS stats. Hit is awesome since it affects your spells and your melee. Frost shock will be your biggest damage dealer. Expertise is good too and Agility is the king of all stats for us, adding armor, dodge and AP.

My tactic so far has been to lightning bolt one mob, followed by a chain lightning on another, then frost shock on the one I mark skull, followed by stormstrike once in melee. this usually puts me up enough threat to keep everything controlled. I can't tank more than 3 at once, and that is really pushing it. Classical cc dungeon crawling is preferred over the current trend of aoe-ing everything.

I run with flametounge on my weapon and a spellpower mace. I get nearly the same dps while dummy testing with windfury and tank-mace, but frost shock does less damage that way, and that's our main TPS tool.

I would love for other, more experienced tanks to step in and give us borderliners some advise.

I forgot to add my intended tanking spec:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft <-- this is my raid/starter/tank spec
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft <-- Max TPS spec for farming heroics when you outgear them (ie: awesome gear)

Love, Lampari

[Satorri]

i look at it like this, drop spirit weapons, so you can hold agro, and of course use a shield. but then your missing parry of course.
but a shamman tank without spirit weps. is only 13% under average tank medigation.
thats the same as a death knight tank without a shield, is it not?
thats why i think its possible, also with frost shock at a 4 second cooldown (specced), agro shouldnt be as big a problem as everyone always says.

I think you're missing elements.

Aside from taking that 13% more physical damage from armor reduction (which is more than a big deal), there's also the lack of tanking CDs, the shortage of avoidance (which is made far worse still if you take away Parry with spirit weapons), and the fact that you will have no actual tanking gear beyond weapon, shield, trinkets, neck, and rings.


I don't think anyone is proposing this could be on par with the 4 tank classes, nor is anyone suggesting that it should be done. The only question is *can* it be done, and I think, to a point, the answer is yes. Shamans have slightly more tools than several other classes that can approximate tankiness, including Frost Shock which can give bonus threat.

If you want to MT a t8+ raid as a shaman? Find some friends who REALLY love you and want to support you proving that it can be done.

[Ion]

Technically you DO have a couple tanking cooldowns...shamanistic rage is a mini-shield wall on a 1m cooldown and you can glyph for an absorb shield on your stoneclaw totem. They're not amazing, but they're better than nothing. I'd consider moving points out of static shock and into imp shields since you're going to be getting hit and your lightning shield will be a significant portion of your threat (also glyphing for it would be a good idea)...more orbs is probably less useful than the orbs hitting harder.

Oh, also your wolves are almost a defensive cooldown too...since they heal you for non-trivial amounts when they're up...I'd use that to round out your glyphs.

So something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Not that it would do you any good, mind you...you're still not a tank.

[lyd]

the only way i see shaman tanking working is by giving enhancement a tanking "form." similar to the way druids magically become tanks by turning into a bear, they could turn into a "Protector spirit." perhaps it would multiply their effective armor from mail and give them a % of their ap as stamina, and crit immunity from talents. perhaps you could glyph frost shock and stormstrike to make them high-threat abilities, or the protector spirit talent would increase threat generated. plenty of possibilities, but sat is right that it would be enormously difficult to balance.

[Satorri]

Good call Ion. =)

[tmweb95]

ion one thing about your spec, taking the Shocking glyph is a better alternative to spirit wolfs. 1 less sec CD for frostshock will in the long term of a fight mean, probibly another 25 shocks or so...
otherwise the spec looked great, but one other thing, way spec for 2 different totems if there both earth? and for one, why spec for even 1 earth totem, when you will be spamming (or timing) stoneclaw for shield
i think my spec is one of the best possible.
the extra lightning shields are nice, and the chance to hit with an orb can only add to damage, therefore threat

[palmar]

Since when does glyph of shocking reduce the cooldown on FS?

I think the glyph choices are quite obvious.

Lightning shield (huge chunk of your damage)
Storkmstrike (more damage on lightning shield/maelstrom procs)
Stoneclaw (oh-shit cooldown)

[tmweb95]

Glyph of Shocking:
Reduces the global Cooldown Triggered by any of you Shock spells.

quote from WoWhead's talent calculator

[palmar]

Please read the description better tmweb95.

I'm sorry, but you're getting it wrong. The glyph only reduces the global cooldown, meaning you have more time to cast spells in between. It does not reduce the actual cooldown of the spell, there'll still be 6 (5 or 3 with talents) seconds between your frost shock casts. And you're usually not that pressed with globals as a tank shaman.

It's a nice glyph. Frost shock is the big spell you need to spam every cooldown, and by using it you gain more time in between FS casts to use your other spell. But I think the other three I listed are simply better.

[tmweb95]

thanks for clearing that for me, i was under the impression that the cool down started after the GCD, and taking the GCD away would mean 1 less second

[palmar]

I felt it was time to update this one.

If anyone's interested, my gear has improved significantly since last time. I have now off-tanked koralon in VoA, I tanked the first boss in gun'drak heroic. I tanked HoL normal, ToC normal and VH normal. I've also tanked VH on heroic.

The biggest problem so far has been holding aggro. I am tough enough for healers to never complain about squishyness. When I off-tanked kora I had 33khp with some buffs.

[Satorri]

Nice work, Palmar. Love seeing people work off the beaten path.


=) Keep it up, and fill us in on how it goes!