Tankadin looking for help
Hello, Im lookin to join a raiding guild to start doing more then just the boring ole Heroics and was hoping on getting some help.
The World of Warcraft Armory
1st, Is my Str way too low? in accordance how is my Block?
2nd, How are my avoidance %'s are they ok, waaaaay to low?
People call me a welfare tank (now that ive got a lot of Conq badge tanking items) but do just fine in heroics..... *if u notice i havent been 80 for long*
If anyone is reading this and plays on the Mug'thol server and is a raiding guild leave me a shout also pls
You are, by all accounts and purposes, a welfare tank. That's just a fact - nothing you have comes from raiding any significant content. That doesn't mean you can't gear, spec, or play well (although it might be time to get serious if you really want to hone your skilles). Conquest gear is so high above the difficulty level of heroics, you could faceroll them and still do well in your gear. You don't want to be in heroics though, you say you want to raid, so it's good that you came to learn. Blizzard pretty clearly put a nearly full set of "welfare tanking" gear in the game between H TOC and the conquest/triumph badge availability for just this reason, so new tanks didn't have to endlessly farm content. You still need to spec, enchant, gem, and play well. That's where you should focus right now.
Let's start with your glyphs. Glyph of Divine Plea is not optional - it's 3% bonus mitigation to all sources of damage that stacks with everything Prot has. Swap it in. My personal preference is to drop the glyph of judgement because I like the AOE pickup threat from the extra HotR hit, but if your #1 concern is single target threat you can drop HotR.
On to your spec. It's... significantly suboptimal. Divinity has been shown time and time again to effectively be wasted points, because it mostly creates overheals that don't add to your survivability. Drop it completely. Divine Guardian is a very situational talent that is awesome if your'e usually your guild's offtank, but if you plan on maintanking with any regularity is somewhat useless - you won't get a chance to take advantage of it, and your sacred shield will usually be provided by a holy paladin. I prefer 2/2 imp hammer for the short interrupt, but your mileage may vary. Those two points are definitely personal preference.
Only one point in Spiritual Attunement is required to keep your mana up on 99% of content with sanctuary and divine plea, General Vezax being the notable exception. If you're maintanking Vezax on a regular basis, consider speccing back into 2/2, otherwise drop the point. Redoubt needs to be maxxed out - block value has a cap as a threat stat, but you're not near it yet, and it's a decent piece of mitigation too.
The five points you're dropping from divinity are going where they actually matter - into survival talents. Judgements of the Just is the same debuff as Thunderclap, one that massively reduces incoming boss damage. You need this. You can't count on a warrior tank to be putting it up. Take both points. Same with Vindication. This was changed in 3.2 to be equal to a fully talented Demoralizing Shout, a huge incoming damage debuff. Take both points of this too.
Finally, the threat stats. Your points for threat can either go into Seals of the Pure, like you have it now, or up to Conviction and 3/3 crusade. Point for point, Crusade is the most overall threat/damage if you're fighting mobs where the extra damage applies (Humanoids, Undead, Demons, Elementals). THis means in Naxx/ToC, virtually all bosses will be higher threat with Crusade. In Ulduar, Seals of the Pure is more threat. Spec based on which raids you intend to raid more often.
Enchants! Gems! You are significantly over the defense minimum of 540. That's not a BAD thing in any way - it still adds a lot of avoidance - but you might not want to gem 16 def gems anymore. Switch them for 8 defense/12 stam gems if you still want the socket bonus. Paladins MASSIVELY triple dip in stamina, gaining talented bonuses of 14% to overall stam, and bonuses from Touched by the Light and Ardent Defender based on stam. Stam stacking blindly isn't a wise gearing strategy, but point for point it's the best gemming available for a paladin. Make up your defense elsewhere - get 22 defense to chest instead of 10 stats, and ABSOLUTELY lose the nightmare tear. It's the same avoidance as a shifting dreadstone, but less survivability at the cost of a tiny bit of threat. You shouldn't have to gem for threat at your gear level. No more strength or expertise gems right now, especially since you're at the Dodge soft cap for expertise (26 with your glyph of vengeance up). Expertise is a very weak threat stat for paladins overall. If you want more threat (and I <3 threat, so I understand), enchant for Accuracy instead of the weapon chain.
Get your shoulders enchanted! I don't know if maybe you just upgraded them so you ahven't visited the Hodir rep guy (if so, grats! Those are well itemized, especially for a heroic drop), or if you don't have rep with hodir. If you don't have the rep... you need to start farming it. However, for 10k honor you can get the greater inscription of the gladiator in the time being, a 30 stam 15 resil enchant that I still frankly use because I love my effective health and have plenty of avoidance from gear. Most tanks will get better results though out of the exalted Hodir shoulder enchant.
Finally, last but certainly not least, I cannot stress enough how much you need to understand what a 969 rotation is. It's the crux of paladin tanking in Wrath, it's part of what makes us such smooth tanks, and it's what separates pally tanks people complain about from the ones that they love. If you know it, you love it already. If you don't, hit up some google and prepare to be amazed. It's pure awesome.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I like people who have their head in the right direction. You've obviously put a lot of effort into gearing towards being the best, and slacker tanks are no good for anyone. Keep it up.
Divinity is not a great talent. It is somewhere to put leftover points, you've priotitized it over some much better talents. Fill out redoubt to 3/3, and get 2/2 in Judgements of the Just, the attack speed reduction is a huge amount of damage mitigation. Vindication in the ret tree is also necessary as it now (after 3.2) reduces the AP of bosses, the same way demo shout does. Your glyphs should be changed too. This spec and the glyphs listed are what I'd recommend:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Gear is mostly fine, you've got enough hit and expertice. You're gemming is a little off. You shouldn't gem for strength, you'll get enough from gear and pally threat gen is good enough you shouldn't need any help. If you need defense, use stam+defense greens in yellow sockets. Use agil+stam or dodge+stam purple gems for red sockets if you want to match the bonus or need a couple for your meta requirement, and always use a blue stam gems in blue or prismatic (colorless) sockets. Don't use the + to all stats tears.
I'm assuming you know about the 969 rotation? After that, tanking is all about situational awareness. Being able to see what's going on around you so you don't stand there like a lump building threat on three mobs while the fourth is behind you, out of camera view, smashing your healer's face in.
Don't know how I missed that. Defense gained from the chest enchant is defense you don't have to gem for and you can use stam gems instead.
Originally Posted by Zothor
Get a shoulder inscription. Even if you get the PVP one for now, start working on your hodir rep. Exalted with the Sons of Hodir for the best inscriptions is a good indication of someone's committment to min-maxing their toon, get exalted if you hope to get into any kind of raiding guild. No hodir rep is a huge "red flag" on an app.
Originally Posted by Zothor
Wow, thanks for the reply! that will help out a ton guys... didnt know how blind I was... I know im a "welfare" tank but at the same time i havent been 80 all that long... went threw getting my Ret items and got blessed with the change (I had planned on tanking OS the whole time) and actually had the Belt,gloves,legs epic from VH/Gundrak and AN plus blues until the change came in and just went tank tank tank once i got some better items and love tanking WAY more then DPSing. Need 2 more titansteel bars for my Tanking boots yay! Then plan on at least doing 25 man F L for Titanguard at the very least every week. Shield needs an upgrade also.
What should I replace my nightmare tear with? Oh and I also have Peacekeeper blade with Accuracy enchant on it ... I will swap that in instead of RSC with wep chain.
My current rotation i use like the bible atm pretty much is:
I've Tanked OS 10/25 man VoA 10/25 man along with the heroics..... Definately looking forward to finding a Raiding guild and tanking for/with them and Learning the "real" tanking fun of being a tank.
No worries about being welfare, blind, inexperienced, whatever. Whether or not people admit it, EVERY ONE OF US STARTED NOOB. You have to want to learn to learn, looks like you've got that out of the way.
Peacekeeper blade is an amazing threat upgrade. Never put your red sword back on - you can even gem for the defense if you have to, it's worth it.
Personally as an opening rotation, I tend to run in with AS (huge opening threat even on a single target unglyphed, plus the longest range), Judgement as I'm closing, Shield of the Righteous. Because I am a threat monger I have AS macroed to wings for most of my pulls, but don't use this on EVERY pull - situationally you may need to have shieldwall available. I love snapthreat though, and my DPS is particularly bad at holding off on their aoe blowing stuff up. Realistically though, as long as you're always using an ability and not waiting for cooldowns (969 ftw) the variants between different openings on 969s are minimal at best. Use what feels right.
Nightmare tears should be replaced with Shifting Dreadstones or Enduring Eyes of Zul if you want to get the socket bonus. Solid Majestic if you don't.
ok, thanks for all your input.. I will def as soon as server comes back up change my spec a little and do some gemming changes.. equip peace keeper blade and get that out of the way. Ive ran naxx with my hunter before plenty of times although tanking that does no good.. i know fights in places as far as how htey go just need to get the tanking part down... Done the first 6 bosses in Ulduar ... If i can get Titanguard from FL and shoulders from Deconstructor that would be a big help.. Shield is a huge huge disadvantage im having and I love your shield with 2 gem slots on it...Im completely jealous of your HP's ... been wanting to go JCer instead of dumb ole skinning and think im going to just have to suffer and go back around on my ground mount and gather up all the stuffs for it
You have no idea how much farming it took to get that shield... I have a real problem with blizz making the only 232 shield from a 10man hard mode in the Ulduar level content. Was using the Kel'thuzad shield for like five months. But yes, shield is the only slot you can't welfare in the current content (Although, ToC 25 is puggable on most servers, at least the first two bosses. First boss drops a 245 shield. No sockets, but good avoidance and threat, and of course a huge armor/stam upgrade over your ilvl 200. Pug that stuff. Now.)
Originally Posted by Lirpa
The decon shoulderpads actually aren't as huge an upgrade as you'd think - they're itemized the same way as yours and only a 7 ilvl upgrade. I would focus on ToC. You really do have enough gear to be attacking 10 man once you're properly tuned, and it drops 232 level tanking loot along with the extremely delicious Triumph badges.
You no longer NEED JC to welfare a tank, since there are now 2 easily accessible stam trinkets, both of which you've got. I previously powered JC when Ulduar wasn't even out for the Monarch Crab, before the 2 Ulduar stam trinkets and the TOC trinket existed. Mining is a fine tanking profession, the bonus stam is nice, although skinning is pretty weak. If you're willing to sacrifice some profitability I'd go ahead and powerlevel blacksmithing, or even Alchemy if you have an herbalist alt to support it. JC is useful but handcuffs you to the dailies, a limitation no other profession currently shares.
Ok, shoulder enchant done, Respec done, Reglyph done, Found a Raiding guild that needs a tank and told em my xp so far they said ok , ... need to get some cash's regem a little bit and then its all playing and actually learning...
MUCHO THANKS to you 2 for your help and imput
Regems shouldn't really require cash. Wintergrasp and heroic farming. Use Honor (10k honor for any color) to buy your straight Blue gems because for some retarded reason, single colors cost more than combos for badges. Use your badges to buy your purples/greens. Easymode win, totally farmable.
Originally Posted by Lirpa
cash works too though. On my server most uncut epics are down below 150g, which is less than a set of crusader dailies.
I have 2 little things that looking at your sheet stand out to me.
The expertise gem....wtf! Please remove that for something else.
You have 2 gather professions...why skinning? I know it adds crit but it really doesn't benefit you as a tank. I'd look at grabbing another profession to help your stats and power level it. I know its a nit pick but will help you in the long run.
a few more suggestion, the pure def gems, imo I'd rather have 10def 15stam than the pure def one. You can afford to swap that out. Your boots you have a minor speed increase and PoJ, they don't stack, I'd go see an enchanter and put 22stam on them.
As for being a welfare tank, so what, it shows you have busted your ass since the badge gear came out to get the gear you got. At the very least it shows dedication.I took me months to get where you are now. Why do you think blizz put the badge change in? To help w/the lack of undergeared toons or stop gaps for those who needed to get someone geared fast. They learned in BC you couldn't put a kara geared tank in to BT nor can you put a heroic/crafted geared tank into Ulduar/CC.
Best of luck and enjoy tanking, you'll see the jump when you start raids the difference in play thou.
Yes, my boots are getting replaced tomorrow once i get my last Titansteel bar for Ulduar pattern boots... Boot enchant that I have on there now i actually got for free from a guildie who was working his last few pts of enchanting to get max so it didnt matter to me :P The 2 +16 Def gems ill be replaced asap and then I should be all set.....
Guild I am in now i just joined and we are going to raid Uldaur 10 man this week so we'll see how that goes ..... ive seen the first 4 and Kolo/IC on my hunter
Zothor with replaceing the 10 stats gem.. Isnt it 10 str for block/threat 10 agi for dodge 10 stam for HP..? Just curios as to why a 10 agil 15 stam gem would be better than the 10 stats?
Probably best suited in the HALP forums.
Someone posted over at Maintankadin the other day about "Why is the nightmare tear such a bad gem that everyone hates" and we pretty heavily savaged it over there. The TL;DR version is that
1) paladin threat, even after the incoming nerf, isn't a big deal. we have a sweet rotation and scale well.
2) stamina is king. we triple dip through +14% from talents, TbtL (at least till next patch) and TWO advantages in ardent defender - the range gets wider, and the heal gets bigger. oh, and bigger JoL heals. for a prot paladin... stam. is. king. period.
3) you never advise anyone to gem straight strength except for a threat set. why would you gem it on an "all stats" gem? the spirit and int are both utterly pointless, hyou get the same agi, you lose stam. Until I am seriously threatcapping my DPS, I will never trade stamina for strength. Block value isn't a viable survival stat, so strength doesn't help my tanking worth anything.
use a nightmare tear if you use any gear you swap in SPECIFICALLY for threat. otherwise, forget it. shifting ftw.
So, I got my new boots today... need to finish regemming..
Tanked 10 Man ToC today and BOY was it a blast... literally.. it was fun lol... Got the 1st sets of bosses down 2nd boss down got to pvp part and phail group kicked in Tried to Lock down the Druid while tryint to nuke the priest but we coudlnt get anything to work for us