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Thread: Loosing HP, too much, too fast

  1. #1
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    Loosing HP, too much, too fast

    According too some healers, I loose way too much HP, way too fast, and I am wondering if somebody could tell my why, have not been able too find any obvious reason, but I might be missing something... Any way,

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    There is my armory page, check it, and tell me if you see some obvious mistakes. I removed al my parry gems for dodge ones, just in case that has not been updated yet.

  2. #2
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    Ca you be more specific with the circumstances: is it on trash, on bosses, which trash, which bosses, what is your rotation etc.

    Also, what's up with you not having any professions? I'm hoping that's an Armoury error.

  3. #3
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    If i were you i would replace all of my gems into 30stam gems (24 if you dont have the money), excpet put a 10dodge 15stam into one of the sockets to meet the meta requirement. Also i would pick up some profs right away

  4. #4
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    Would need you to be more specific on what type of situations you're talking about.

    Initial look at your gear seems ok to me. Just curious about why you took Chillbains and Hungering Cold.

    I guess there's 2 ways to go about gearing and all. Either stack stam or balance it out with avoidance. I'm your basic avoidance whore, so I'd probably stack avoidance when I can but the idea of stack stam isn't bad as well. I just don't like the idea of being too much of a mana sponge. That said, it's going pretty well for me.

    Here's my armory:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    I have not tanked any hard modes so I will not be able to vouch for it but have tanked up to Kologarn with my guild who has recently progressed to Hodir.

    Feedbacks from healers so far has been:
    - nicer to heal as i'm not constantly soaking up heals (read mana).
    - spikier damage so heals will have to be more alert to those time.

  5. #5
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    While tanking naxx 10 and ToC HC have i been having people telling me I am a bitch too heal. I do not have any professions because i have'nt had the time too level any, and I'm not shure about what too go for.

  6. #6
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    hmmm... I was tanking naxx10 in less gear than what I have now without much issues. H ToC with what I have can get spiky at times, but the healers I've been with are pretty happy with me.

    Like I said in my last post, healers have told me that it's nicer to heal me albeit spikier. The last we tried, my healer did not pass 2k HPS while healing me as opposed to healing a DK so stacked purely stam with almost similar gear (I think he said that he was pushing about 2.3-2.4k HPS).

    Edit:
    As for professions, I would guess either BS, JC or Alch would help you. BS for extra gem slots, JC for Dragon Eyes or Alch for the flasks.
    Last edited by !3M; 08-23-2009 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Adding more info

  7. #7
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    It depends on your progression, ToC25 you can get hit for a LOT, I'd much rather have 10k more health than a few % more avoidance. On farm content I use my avoidance set, but for any progression fights it's EH all the way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helloise View Post
    According too some healers, I loose way too much HP, way too fast, and I am wondering if somebody could tell my why, have not been able too find any obvious reason, but I might be missing something... Any way,

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    There is my armory page, check it, and tell me if you see some obvious mistakes. I removed al my parry gems for dodge ones, just in case that has not been updated yet.
    Your gearing is fine, you may need to work on your rotation and procs a bit. In ToC the mobs get buffs that improve thier crit rating, thus you take spikey damage. What it sounds like to me is that your healers are trasnfering the spikey damage you are taking there to naxx 10. At the hatefulness of sounding extremely rude. it sounds like your healers to me are just trying to find a reason not to heal you. Find different healers and get an opinion.

    Any competent healer should be able to handle you in naxx 10. Unless you are missing a part of your rotation indeffinantly, you should be fine. This sounds more like a case of them compairing you to another tank, probably one far more geared than you. And you are not them, and its unrealistic.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Helloise View Post
    I do not have any professions because i have'nt had the time too level any, and I'm not shure about what too go for.
    If you've got about 5000g or more, go ahead and powerlevel Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting, the two penultimate tanking professions, even after the nerf to JC gems and buff to other professions in patch 3.2. The 2 extra gem slots you get from BS provides a measure of stat flexibility that ime you can't get any other way, and makes getting hit cap, exp cap, and max stam/avoidance much less of a headache as you gear up to Ulduar levels. (Though I haven't tried Alchemy, so not sure if that provides equivalent flexibility)

    However, if you don't have the several thousand gold required to buy all the mats on the AH and powerlevel two expensive professions, then I'd recommend Mining + Herbalism or Skinning. You can level both in about a day or two, just respec to an UH or Blood utility/farming build with On a Pale Horse, and spend a weekend running around Azeroth, Outland, and Northrend gathering nodes. I've done this several times, takes at most several hours split over 2 days.

    Save all your ore for powerleveling BS and/or JC, and either auction all your herbs for more powerleveling funds, or save your herbs if you choose to powerlevel Alchemy. Google 'powerlevel [profession name]' for plenty of guides on the cheapest way to powerlevel both gathering and crafting professions.

    Or, just keep your two gathering professions. 450 Mining gives you +60 Stam, 450 Skinning gives you + NN crit rating (forget the exact amount), and 450 Herbalism gives you a somewhat useful self-heal. Use them to make gold and/or store up mats to cheaply powerlevel one or more crafting professions later.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helloise View Post
    While tanking naxx 10 and ToC HC have i been having people telling me I am a bitch too heal. I do not have any professions because i have'nt had the time too level any, and I'm not shure about what too go for.
    !!!!!!!
    ok mining easy to lvl money maker +60 stam
    smithing at 400 +2 item sockets
    jc (hard to lvl) 51 stam gems 36 def gems

    also in your specs you have neither dual wep or 2 handed specialization. make up your mind and fix
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler View Post
    I'm on a shark

  11. #11
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    Your expertise is 11, you are getting parried to death

  12. #12
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    Oh no not the parry gimp arguement again ... I am not even touching that one!
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hola_adios View Post
    Your expertise is 11, you are getting parried to death
    This is for dual weilding, which he is not.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumurak View Post
    This is for dual weilding, which he is not.
    So parry haste from bosses does not exist for dks? Not trying to be controversial at all. But I have seen it so many times.

  15. #15
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    maybe positioning and rotation, i have a healer and tank, but im a healer threw and threw, most the tanks i work with that "lose health really fast" mostly have trouble with knowledge of there own ability, biting of more then they can chew ...... im not saying this is you at all your gear isn't that bad, still if you could inform us of what fights that would help... it could even be the healer trying to push the blame it seems ur health is going down fast cause he might not know how to heal. just a thought.

    good luck

  16. #16
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    holyjebus brings up a good point, I'm also a healer at heart, a good healer will have an idea of the incoming damage and pre-cast accordingly. Bad healers are reactive and you'll notice your damage is spiky.

    A perfect example is IC - Steelbreaker's Fusion Punch. I time it to drop a 20k HL bomb on the tank ~0.2 seconds after it lands, but flip it around when I'm tanking I've gone up to 3 seconds without a heal.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hola_adios View Post
    So parry haste from bosses does not exist for dks? Not trying to be controversial at all. But I have seen it so many times.
    A parry doesn't make the swing timer zero it is reduced by 40% of your weapon speed and results in a reduction to less than 20% of your swing time. The average of .24 extra swings per parry is generally agreed on. The same applies if a mob parries your attacks.

    Basic answer tops in increase in damage is 20-25% per weapon he weilds and that is assuming max parry rate (ie 0 expertise). On a hard hitting boss in ulduar where the hits are massive this may present a problem because healer may not have time to heal tank back up.

    The OP is talking about naxx 10 and H-toc so lets deal with that. Naxx 10 the only thing remotely hard hitting is patch and H-toc most of the real damage is poison and magic which parry plays no part in.

    So parry haste exists and yes in certain very explicit scenarios it could be a factor but general trash tanking in naxx and heroics its not going to be the problem he would look like a lesser geared tank thats about it.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hola_adios View Post
    So parry haste from bosses does not exist for dks? Not trying to be controversial at all. But I have seen it so many times.
    Ok the math on this has been posted, reposted and posted agian and agian. And some of it brought up in this thread. So lets keep it simple and straight to the point.

    Parry with 2 handed, or sword and board = exsists. Experise lowers this amount. But it never goes away. The statement that x amount of expertise removes parry = a statement that is partially true and false. True based on the math peeps stating it's lowered to the point of minimal. False in that it is never actually gone.

    Parry with dual weild = twice the amount of times a mob can parry you. Expertise or not, since it never actually goes away. The amount of expertise just lowers the possibility.

    Either way it is not the discussion of this thread. Parry happens regardless, and it resets the swing timer. Therefore you can survive without it, and you wont get parried to death because of it. Unless you are dual weilding and you catch it back to back. So parry gibbing is not the answer.

    Otherwise ciderhelm and the rest of us tanks that have been doing progression would have been parry gibbed to death as we were doing content. before 26 expertise was even remotely possible.

    Simply put I think you are taking the crit chances in ToC with thier debuff that they get to raise this crit chance. Your healers and then transfering this everywhere they go for you. So they are either....

    1.) Overhealing too much and running out of mana....healing problem
    2.) Not geared appropriatly for mana regen and the like...also healing problem
    3.) Are used to healing x tank and are treating y tank ridiculously.
    4.) You are actually taking too much damage due to rotation screwup.
    5.) Not selecting the appropriate gear for the fight....tank problem

    I really don't give a s%^&*(t what other people say about gearing. I am a firm believer in specific gear sets for specific bosses and situations. And this jumbo I hear about being able to use one set. Well i'm glad they are able to get so many triumph badges so easily. Because the tier 9 gear makes that possible. Or being best in slot out of ulduar. if you are not either of those 2 things, then the mobs are progression for you. And you should be gearing for your fights and/or using an extreme amount of effective health.

  19. #19
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    Well, the problem does not seem to be on you side.

  20. #20
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    Some good points mentioned above. I'd use 22 stam on boots, and I agree that expertise is a bit more useful than 16 dodge on gloves or shoulders. There's a nice ring with no defense but a blue slot and decent expertise from first wave of bosses in HToC which will be good for you. If you can get the ring first, see how far that takes you before changing your dodge gems.

    DKs inherently take a lot of spiky damage, you can try and get some avoidance to cut that down or go stam happy to give your healers time to react, either is acceptable, but I personally prefer avoidance, which you will get naturally with your gear. You can help out by timing your cooldowns (Unbreakable armor, Icebound Fortitude for physical, Antimagic shell for magic, etc.). For example, when going in for HToC I would pop my IBF and then/or AMS while burning down the first of 3 champions, depending on which ones you got. When you down one, you have less incoming damage so having it on Cooldown is OK. Cooldowns are there to be used regularly, not saved for once your healer is dead. It's very tempting especialyl if you dont have years of tanking, to save it for that special occasion . Please don't; use it as fast as possible so you can use it again in the same fight.

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