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Thread: Warrior Frustration at PDK 25 – Nordend Beasts Hardmode

  1. #1
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    Warrior Frustration at PDK 25 – Nordend Beasts Hardmode

    Yesterday we did Nordrend Beats Hardmode with our 25 Man raid.
    Our Prot Paladine was MT1, I was MT2

    Since yesterday I’m really frustrated, because 90% of the try’s I go down in Phase 1. Sometimes only because of the dot’s, while there seems to be absolutely no problems to keep the Pala alive…

    We did a 2 Tank Strategy which means:
    Pala takes Boss until he has 4 Stacks
    Than I spot. Before the 3rd pile Stack came I use Last Stance
    Before the 4th pile Stack came I get CD from our priest
    Than Pala spots

    Normal I get the boss again shortly before the two worms will came and with maximum of 2 pile stacks we go into phase 2.

    I know I do not have really the best in slot gear (did not have so much luck with the droppings), but I always thought that I have
    solid tank equip…
    I used Indestructibly drink and my trinkets as often as possible.

    My question, are there other warrior thanks who made the same experience?
    Is my equipment really to bad for PDK hero modes???

    I’ll be really grateful for any feedback.

    p.s. please excuse any wrong used names, as I have a German client. I hope I translated everything correctly

  2. #2
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    Yes, warriors and DKs are inferior on this fight due to lacking mitigation and Ardent Defender.

  3. #3
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    I have 42khp unbuffed as a warrior and have tanked everything up until now. i have been sitting out on beasts and letting our druid/pally tank and bringing in a extra dps.

    Healers prefer me tanking in most situations but this one fight they say i take alot more damage compared to the others. so step aside and let things get blown up without you.

  4. #4
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    I've tanked this with a druid and a warrior in both 10/25 man hard mode. We have a set order on the debuffs to push the most damage to the tank that can take the hits. We do it differently for a warrior and a druid as an offtank. When I tank with the warrior, I have him take the first 3. All the healers are reletively untaxed. When the warrior gets his 3rd I taunt. I will then run it to 5 stacks (priest c/d fifth), then I bubble immediately if I'm about to die, forcing agro back to the warrior (he needs to be second on the threat) or bubble after he taunts if my health is ok. The warrior then runs to 2-3. I Hand of protect at him if hes ever in trouble. I take 2 and then he takes 2 and by that time were both coming into the twins with 2 stacks (or he may have 1). We still have the occassional death, but no reason a warrior can't do it.
    (With our druid its 2-5(me)-4-2-1)

  5. #5
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    Warrior are capable as any other tank i agree. You also have to be willing to step aside if that is a option as well.

    I consider our healing crew and tanking crew and raid very good players and very intelligent so when i am told its easier to heal the other two tanks i don't argue. There is no room for ego's in content progression especially with limited number of attempts.

    It was never a issue of anyone dieing because a warrior was tanking it was just a simple fact it was easier to heal a pally rather than a warrior.

    You need to start using cooldowns around the forth Koldbald or around the 3rd tank transition. and use Bop's before the worms to get rid of the bleed effect

  6. #6
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    Gormok gets stronger the more snobolds are up, so if you're the last person to taunt, you are taking a ton more damage.

  7. #7
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    I think the problem is that the pally can bubble off his stacks and you cannot.

  8. #8
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    Sorry, you've been outskilled by Ardent Defender. Go burn a glyph slot for an inferior cooldown!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thist View Post
    I think the problem is that the pally can bubble off his stacks and you cannot.
    Last i checked Anyone can receive a Blessing of protection"BoP"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
    [FONT=Arial]
    p.s. please excuse any wrong used names, as I have a German client. I hope I translated everything correctly
    I was wondering what the HELL pdk was....lol. (it's ToC for most of us)

    Anyway, yes we are all having the same experience. Paladins seem to breeze through these fights with ease. It is SO rare to hear our paladins call out that AD even proc'd, yet we just stand there literally dying the whole time even with full personal and external cds. It's a rough fight with BIG damage for whoever tanks it, but warriors and deathknights are having a much harder time than druids and especially paladins right now.

  11. #11
    I'm a warrior tank.

    I tank initially and take 2 stacks then our Druid tank taunts. They will take 4 stacks and I'll taunt off. I'm able to use CD's close to when i get 4 stacks and even end it with a Shield Wall if needed. The druid will taunt off me and then the healers can either continue to heal you or BoP you and your stacks fall off. The druid tanks and by the time they get their 4th stack the worms are coming out.

    I tank first because the Druid will tank last when he has 4 stacks of his buff and the Druid will be tanking the most damage at that point. I'm assuming you should be spec'ed and glyphed into 2 minute Laststand and Shield wall if you are doing this on Heroic 25 man, so you can easily use both of these CD's back to back on your only 4 stack. There's really no reason not to, even if you tank Icehowl your CDs will be back up and the worms don't do anything too crazy to the tanks.

  12. #12
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    We use CDs to get by.

    Warrior starts out and takes 4 stacks. Last Stand used at 2 stacks and he pops Shield wall right before teh 4th impale.

    The paladin (me) taunts when Shield Wall is about to expire and I Hand of Protection the warrior.

    I take 6 stacks. I use a glyphed Hand of Salvation around midway on stack 5 to squeeze out another impale. Then I bubble /cancel aura to clear my stacks.

    I usually get to 2, maybe 3 stacks again before Gormok dies and the worms spawn.

    Bubble + AD makes this fight very good for paladins.

  13. #13
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    AFAIK one reason this fight is far easier for paladins is the way the damage comes in, relative health values, and the way Ardent Defender works. The impales often drops my pally co-tank to ~30-35% life, he tells me the follow-up melee often has a good chunk mitigated by his AD.

    We do a 3 tank 2 stack rotation for 25m. (And we still have enough dps ) I think this set-up is easier on non-paladin tanks; because the bleeds never stack higher then 2.

    Be a Champion, not a hero.
    Drae

    http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1454507.jpg


  14. #14
    I never really found it to be a problem as a warrior tank. I have around 50k buffed and what we do is: Druid tanks first 2, DK takes second 2, I take the third 2 stacks. I use LAst stand and all my trinkets on my first roatation. When it gets back to me, I use shieldwall. Oh, I also spec for imp demo and imp commanding (very helpful). Armor pots are a +

    We also only use 5 healers, so i would assume your healers are slacking or you are not planing your cds out. Remember, for each koldbol (or how ever they are spelt) out, his dmg is increased by 15% that stacks. plan around that, specially since you are taking so many impales with the debuff

  15. #15
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    We haven't killed him yet but with a DK & Warrior we found a reliable way to get into P2 using this setup, me (warrior) being the better geared tank..

    DK takes first 3 impales, no cooldowns

    Warrior takes next 4 impales.
    -first impale no cooldown
    -2nd impale shield block + first trinket
    -3rd and 4th impale last stand. Last stand is 20 secs so using it can cover 2 impales.

    DK takes the next 3 impales (BoP warrior to remove debuff)
    -first impale no cooldown
    -2nd and 3rd impale uses cooldowns

    Warrior takes next 2 impales (BoP DK)
    -first impale, shield block + trinket + nightmare seed
    -2nd impale, shield wall

    DK takes the final impales, could be 1 or 2 depending on dps
    -external cooldowns for impales.

  16. #16
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    Warriors are amazing at tanking Gormok, you're most definitely doing it wrong.

    Personally I tank Gormok to 50% hitting Last Stand right before the 3rd Imaple, once that wears off I shield wall. Our off tank eats the next 4 impales, we bop it off and I finish off with shield block and then double trinkets keeping me alive. I have zero outside cooldowns cast on me during this phase and I'm in no danger of dying.

    Warriors in general are absolutely amazing tanks currently and things are going to get even better in 3.2.2 with the critical block changes. There isn't a single fight in Wrath currently that you'd want to bench a warrior tank for another class.

  17. #17
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    A warrior can tank these fights just fine. If you are not a world-top guild where everyone is super geared and experienced tho, taking equally-geared paladins atm is going to make these fights a bit easier. I don't think anyone else will argue the fact that tanks are, again, a bit imbalanced atm (hence the paladin nerfs and warrior/dk buffs?). I definitely wouldn't use the term "amazing" to describe warrior tanks right now. I have always been proud to be a warrior tank and an advocate for prot warriors, but if you can't see that paladins are a bit op atm then.. I dunno what to tell you....

    You are right tho, a warrior CAN tank the fight just fine. I use my cooldowns in a similar fasion on this fight, using last stand just before impale 3. Cooldowns are still used on me just to be safe (GS on 4th), and since they aren't really needed for tanking worms. People aren't saying a warrior will just fall over dead on this fight. We shouldn't die if it's done right. It's just much easier to heal a paladin than a warrior in these situations (and they always have their rng protection). Just because YOU survive just fine doesn't mean that an equally geared/skilled warrior in a different guild will. It rests on the healers too, and that's where the "paladins take less damage and are easier to heal" part helps.
    Last edited by Dragaan; 09-18-2009 at 04:11 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
    Yesterday we did Nordrend Beats Hardmode with our 25 Man raid.
    Our Prot Paladine was MT1, I was MT2

    Since yesterday I’m really frustrated, because 90% of the try’s I go down in Phase 1. Sometimes only because of the dot’s, while there seems to be absolutely no problems to keep the Pala alive…
    If you are only frustrated about this part, switch to you tanking first and pala 2nd and they will have bit harder time keeping him alive 2nd tank in rotation of 2 generally takes more damage.
    Mookey | GM of <RISE> Xavius [EU]

  19. #19
    We use two warriors to tank since we do not have a Pally tank atm. Our 2 ferals do way too much DPS to use for tanks here. We were barely making the DPS requirement and switching to the two tank strategy has gotten us to Icehowl a few times now. I expect us to finish this heroic fight soon.

    We do it as stated in the addendum video by Lore. This has gotten through phase one reliably. I jotted it down in a list if it helps.
    1) 3 impales on Tank#1, use trinket at second impale which should last through 3rd impale.
    2) 4 impales on Tank#2, use major CD+ armor pot at impale #2.
    3) HoP Tank#2, Taunted by Tank#1
    4) 3 impales on Tank#1, major CD used right after 1st impale (I use last stand + armor pot)
    5) Taunted by Tank#2, HoP Tank#1
    6) 1 impale taken by Tank#1
    7) Taunted by Tank#2
    8) 2 impale on Tank#2, time major CD with first impale. Can also use GS or Pain suppression.

    Usually he is dead as the worms arrive.

    On the frustration issue. I have near 50k health and have my Imp DS up 100% and still I do feel some frustration from my healers and wish I could magically give them a Pally tank. But you know what, it's always going to be something people will moan about. Before it was requiring Shield Block for Shears, then it was 60k health on Bears, then IBF every minute and now it is AD. It is impossible for Blizz to make all tank classes equal. Best idea for a guild would be to have a flavor of every type just so you can be ready to handle buffs/nerfs to your tanks on a rotating basis. Don't let it get to you.

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