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Thread: I need some input please

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    I need some input please

    i've posted on another forum about this and not really gotten a answer that I can say that is a good reason...

    Now here we go. I've been noticing that a lot of pallies are forgoing getting any Block Rating or trying for it other then what is on their gear. they have been stacking Dodge. I've looked up some of these tanks and from what I am seeing this can't be good. they spend hundreds of gems and trinket spots on getting their dodge to like 30% and Nothing on block. now i know not getting hit as a tank is a good thing but lets be real here your a tank your called it for a reason. Your going to get hit, Hard. With a block rating of 15% even with Holy shield/ shield block your getting 45% block most tanks use that button every time it is up. I have looked up a lot of pally tanks and they can get like 29% dodge unbuffed. but they are at 15% or LESS with Block Rating... is this really good.

    Now as i see it Pallies are mana useing tanks and their rage is their mana. if they don't get hit they don't regen mana, (through there heals they get). So would it be a safe bet that a healer knowing that your a tank and going to get hit would it be better to take a 27k hit over a 30k hit.


    So should a pally tank stack dodge. Even though the higher your dodge goes you get less of a % per point of dodge. in other words if it takes 15 point to go from 18% to 19% it takes 55 to go from 23% to 24%. then wouldn't it be better to balance your stats like i am doing. I'm at 23.98% dodge, 17.33% perry, 26.50% Block,... stopping 2330 that is my MItigation.

    As always, I'd appreciate any constructive comments anyone would care to offer.

  2. #2
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    Block works best where there are small-but-fast hitting bosses, such as most of Naxx. With enough Block Value, you used to be able to make the Loatheb fight next to trivial as you'd block almost all of his incoming damage.

    However, with Ulduar and now Crusaders' Coliseum, we're not seeing that kind of fight any more, so the gearing strategy has changed accordingly. Even with a lot of Block Value, you might end up shaving off 2.5k from a 27k hit from bosses like Hodir. While a guaranteed 10% mitigation isn't to be sniffed at, the reality is that it has very little impact on your time to live - after all, two full 27k swings will kill you if you get no heals in exactly the same way that two blocked 24.5k swings will. In short, it doesn't do enough to save you most of the time, whereas avoidance can.

    I disagree with your assumption about it being a tank's job to get hit though - it's the tank's job to maintain aggro and stay alive, getting hit is just a byproduct of that. You can maintain your mana through dodges, misses or parries through Blessing of Sanctuary.

    If at all possible, having a "block set" for trash or instances you outgear is a great idea but for progression main tanking, you want a big pool of effective health (Stam+Armor) then as much avoidance (miss+dodge+parry) as you can get to hopefully buy you some time where you don't take any damage, allowing the healers to keep you topped up.

    It's a shame because 100% block uptime is one of the things that makes us Paladins unique just now, but we're simply not given the opportunity for it to be spectacularly useful post-3.1 as it will rarely be enough to save your life. It's very nice to be able to guarantee that you'll never take a full hit, don't get me wrong, but it'd be a mistake in terms of your overall TTL to invest heavily into block on your MT set.

    Hope that helps

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testt View Post
    Now as i see it Pallies are mana useing tanks and their rage is their mana. if they don't get hit they don't regen mana, (through there heals they get). So would it be a safe bet that a healer knowing that your a tank and going to get hit would it be better to take a 27k hit over a 30k hit.


    So should a pally tank stack dodge. Even though the higher your dodge goes you get less of a % per point of dodge. in other words if it takes 15 point to go from 18% to 19% it takes 55 to go from 23% to 24%. then wouldn't it be better to balance your stats like i am doing. I'm at 23.98% dodge, 17.33% perry, 26.50% Block,... stopping 2330 that is my MItigation.

    As always, I'd appreciate any constructive comments anyone would care to offer.
    Incorrect if a pally needs mana but isn't getting hit hard enuf to gain mana back from Spiritual Attunement - Spell - World of Warcraft he will put up the buff Greater Blessig of Sanctuary - Spell - World of Warcraft on themself in raid it will be on anyhow.

    When you are going into ulduar you stack all the dodge you can get ... blocking 2K off a 25-30K hit doesnt help much.

    It's a change that has come about because of the size of the hits from bosses ATM block is not that good.

    In the same way alot of boss fights even the new heroic TOC has alot of magic damage.

    So gemming for stam and stacking up on avoidance has become the norm for tanks atm.. most wouldnt even know there block figure.

    With the new instances we have seen first pvp encounter so who knows we might be loading new stats up for new stuff soon.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  4. #4
    any paladin tank thats good will keep sanctuary on himself anytime, not just in a raid.
    Mana is not a big deal ,even with avoidance, tanks still take tons of damage, enough to keep pretty well full mana taking 5% [sa x1] of heals for their mana.

    Block is not the best for tanks, because it won't really take anymore than 3k off a hit [that would be a VERY WELL GEARED for block value tank]. A boss hits you for 20 k, you take 3k off 50% of the time and in 4 hits you have reduced 6 k damage.
    Get 30% dodge [pretty high there as well], and in 4 hits you take off 20 k dmg [alright it would need 33.3%, but this still shows the point iam trying to make]. see which is better now?

    block is not worth much on most bosses, avoidance is. boss is worth some on trash, avoidance is as well though.

    SO yes keep stacking dodge for your damage reduction needs until about 30%,
    then you will want to start on defense probably [to balance out diminishing returns, so it is equal with Parry, after 30% dodge and 20% parry, defense will get you point for point more avoidance, i believe].

    And this isn't exactly new, avoidance was more desirable than block in BC as well

  5. #5
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    Everybody responded about BoSanc, me repeatting it for the nth time won't help.

    Every paladin tank should have Divine Plea at all times up. It's always being refreshed EVERY white hit and every HotR (6 seconds CD, vs 20 seconds expiration of DP). If it goes down it is because you have changed phases, and really, it has probably been up for so long DP is back off CD, cast it again.

    Let's give the OP some numbers shall we?

    The average paladin with no buffs of any kind has a smidgeoun under 6k mana pool. Let's give our paladin an 8k pool with raid buffs. *Bing*

    Paladin take as 24k hit (after blocking with shield of course) from a boss, and gets a a an 18k nuke heal from a paladin/disc priest and a 5k flash from the raid holy priest, with a renew ticking for the rest. With one point of Spirtual Attunement, 24*.05 = 1200 mana. That's over 1/8th of her mana bar right there, one shot, enough for 2-3 abilities. And they don't come in singles... 2-3 hits and there's half the mana bar filled up nicely. And of course with Divine Plea ticking...

    Now lets take a trash mob set. Say the trash was hitting for 2500, 2000 was being blocked, so a paltry 500 is being taken, which is nothing for even a noob tank at 30k buffed health. Now, multiply this by 20 or so spiders, and this becomes alot of damage! And constant going too! But they are getting constant heals, resulting in mana from spiritual attunement. But thats a bit unrealistic, how can 20 spiders hit a tank with a 40% dodge/parry? Well, they can't, so your damage is really less, BUT, that means 40% of spiders, or 8 spiders, are triggering Blessing of Sanctuary through dodges and parries, and lets say they can eat the 8 charges of holy shield, so another 8 spiders are blocked. The rest get through.
    So 4 spiders do 2500 damage = 10k there
    8 spiders are blocked, 500 = 2k there
    12k @ 5% damage healed = 600 mana
    8 Spiders being blocoked = 16% of mana pool there refunded.. 16% of 8k=1280 mana
    8 spiders being dodged/parried = another 1280 mana

    1280+1280+600 = 3160 mana, that's 40% of your mana right there in a short span of time. Did we mention Divine Plea is ticking too...?

    So you see, mana shouldnt be an issue as a MT. However, as an OT dual tanking one boss it gets a bit tricky, you have to rely on Divine Plea, unless its something like patchwerk where you are taking so much damage even as OT (hateful strikes) its not an issue anyways.

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