+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 72

Thread: Deathknight DW Tanking Discussion

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    93
    Right now I am trying to get Wow-Heroes to accept the fact that Blade Ward is a viable enchant. They blew me off saying that DK's should only use runeforge lol. even when i bring numbers.
    The Pwnstar Puddin, Now in a Fun Sized Goblin Shell.




  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    242
    i'm definitely fascinated by the prospect of the blade-ward enchant being better than the 2% parry rune.

    what would the most appropriate test of this be? multiple avoidance parses for multiple raids? do you think that if we could show several different tanks getting better returns off this enchant than 2% parry that it would show conclusively that it is more effective than 2% static parry?

    and would the fact that 1-2% avoidance difference between fights that last 6-10 minutes can be explained by RNG make it difficult to analyze properly?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Pwnanapuddin View Post
    Right now I am trying to get Wow-Heroes to accept the fact that Blade Ward is a viable enchant. They blew me off saying that DK's should only use runeforge lol. even when i bring numbers.
    Wow-heroes is idiotic, so I wouldn't worry about it.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    93
    I am willing to help with the research, I just need to gather a few more gear pieces, which I should have tonight. I am kinda in the middle of a significant breakthrough. While I recorded very high numbers with Dual Legacy of Thunder (1.6 speed) I am recording less numbers with my Dual Titanguards (1.5 speed). Right now I am back to MH-LoT OH-Titan. It could be very likely that we see the procrate shoot up when placed on slower weapons. But this also could be due to the change from Dodge to Parry as the weapons D stat.

    But yeah, just waiting for a bit more D rating so I can pick up a DPS sword, as I like many of the rest of you am going through the big gear transition from Uld -> ToC. So for the time being I am running with my 2-hander again.
    The Pwnstar Puddin, Now in a Fun Sized Goblin Shell.




  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    I'm not entirely clear about how it would play, but I suspect the higher your parry chance the more the chant shifts from defensive value to threat value. The logic being that the higher your parry the more frequently you spend charges, which will reduce your average gained parry from it, but increase (in my head anyway) the amount of damage put out by it.

    Though as I think about it, that's probably not actually the case at all. Because it can stack to 5 the only way you could get more threat out of it would be if you're actually adding stacks when you have 5 already, which I'm guessing is a very rare occasion? Otherwise, it doesn't matter if you spend charges immediately or if you're waiting until you have 3-4.

    So, the enchant has a detracting interaction with parry rating, where the higher your parry the less valuable the enchant becomes (NOTE: not a reduction that would probably noticeably diminish the value, but a slight reduction nonetheless).
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    93
    The reduction I saw was in raw procrate on a different weapon.


    I do have another weird thing that I noticed today.....

    Where did all the hit rating go from gear?
    T9 Helm and Shoulders yes, dreadscale bracers yes, but i mean where is the rest..... looks like for most of the gear that is attractive to DK's has become Expertice gear.....
    The Pwnstar Puddin, Now in a Fun Sized Goblin Shell.




  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    Happens, there's always a shift. I've been wanting more hit rating for some time, largely because I only just got Ignis to drop his boots last night, and I haven't seen Auri's cloak passed the first time when I passed it to my co-tank.

    All in all though, I wouldn't complain about expertise, especially if you're Blood or dual wield Frost, heck, even if you're 2h Frost it's still a fine value.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    T9 Helm, T9 Shoulders, Fate's Clutch with 10 Hit/15 Stam Gem, 20 hit enchant to gloves, Dreadscale Bracers, Hammer of Crushing Whispers with 10 Hit/15 Stam gem in yellow socket for me.

    Easy other solutions are Gauntlets of the Royal Watch, Shieldwarder Girdle, and using Snapper Extreme +40 hit food.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    I actually just dropped hit to gloves for Armsman, for the first time since I hit 80, ha.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    93
    I am fine on hit now. I was talking more the ToTC level of gear. 245 ish.

    But I got my Dual-Bladed Butcher last night...... soooo ya..... I might not be DWing much anymore lol
    The Pwnstar Puddin, Now in a Fun Sized Goblin Shell.




  11. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    74
    Im really very interested in trying DW tanking for several reasons and havent honestly gone for it until now due to poor TPS.
    The main are that i love Frost style of tanking and the other is that a DW Tanking has been something that has always appealed to me.

    However, like everything, there are trade offs and in this case the main one will be the considerable loss of HP.

    According to rawr, and fully raid buffed i stand as blood tank(just a normal set) with :
    Total avoidance : 61,79%
    Health : 46.6k
    Armor : 32.3k
    Hit rating : 245
    Exp : 38

    As a DW Frost with Vulmir, the Northern Tempest - Item - World of Warcraft and The Lion's Maw - Item - World of Warcraft, on MH and OH respectively, and with Rune of Swordbreaking - Spell - World of Warcraft on both :
    Total avoidance : 67,28%
    Health : 43.5k
    Armor : 32.5k
    Hit rating : 282
    Exp : 33

    The doubt thats on my mind is just this : Is it worth it to trade 3.1k health for more 5,49% avoidance ?

    Mind you, i obviously intend to give it quite a few test runs and then ask my healers for input but im interested in what you guys have to say here

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    242
    well there's alot you're not adding to the equation. if you're going to compare 2h blood to DW frost, you need to account for the fact that 2h blood relies heavily on Deathstrike, which gets bigger returns from a bigger health pool. blood tanks favor bigger health pools, period. a better comparison would be if you ran with 2h frost, in which case you would lose the 3% stamina from VotTW, which would account for 1398 hp of your blood hp total, meaning ~1400 of that is coming from spec alone. frost also takes 2% less damage than blood from all attacks due to imp. frost presence. is 43.5k hp enough to survive the big hits at your current level of content once you account for additional mitigation and more avoidance? I would say yes. blood needs the bigger hp pool because it takes more damage per hit, and it's self-heals are percentage-based. in other words: if you are switching from blood to frost, regardless of style, you can afford to lose the hp in exchange for the additional mitigation.

    here's the question I think you should be asking: at your current level of content, is there a point where having that 3.5k health would save you, considering that once you pass a certain level of progression, you will basically be getting spam-healed constantly anyways?

    this was one of the criticisms of Ardent Defender when it first came out. They found that most boss hits were big enough to kill a tank with only 35% health left even after the damage reduction was applied. it's been re-designed since then, but relatively speaking, I think a case can be made on certain fights that the additional hp may not be relevant. the most important thing for you, however, is what you're comfortable with. if you are constantly sweating because you have 3k less hp as a frost tank than as a blood tank, then go back to blood. both styles can tank, and there's no sense in giving yourself anxiety over it.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    74
    Considering the level of knowledge that goes around here i put aside some of the particular tree advantages since they'd be known so there was no need to re state them. So i just put my relevant char info

    In all honesty i dont think 3.5k is going to make that much of a diference considering the extra dmg reduction and considerable avoidance gain.

    But i'll run with that build for a while and see how it behaves. The input from my healers will also have its weight on my decision.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    234
    Does any more test have been made about parry rune vs enchant? I am curious about it; What you guys, frost tanks, are using?

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    242
    I have yet to test Blade Ward for myself. I still roll with 2% parry on both of my weapons. Maybe one of these nights when i'm feeling spry i'll toss it on and see what happens :P

  16. #56
    I tried having 2x Blade Ward on 2 of the Argent tanking axes (1.6 swing speed) a while back. I was excited to try it and was expecting to have 5 stacks up on the dummy and on long boss fights. But after almost a week of having it, 5 stacks of the proc is hard to maintain and didn't really show up all the time for me. I didn't notice any threat increase either, but that was before the ToT/RS change.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,930
    If you can't get it on a dummy you'll never see it on a boss. The dummy won't give you swings to parry so you'll never see the charges dropped except for time. Bosses *should* maintain a much lower uptime/stack count as they clear off stacks when you parry.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    785
    Luckily Blizzard solved the crisis for us next patch, both the enchant and the runeforge will be inferior to the one-handed SSG equivalent.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    24
    Just saw the 3.3 PTR notes. The new "stoneskin gargoyle" for 1-handers.... does it stack? Is it possible for us to get 4% increased stam, including the def?

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tayschren View Post
    Just saw the 3.3 PTR notes. The new "stoneskin gargoyle" for 1-handers.... does it stack? Is it possible for us to get 4% increased stam, including the def?
    I suspect it will be half the bonus of the full SSG, so you would need on both weapons for the same bonus.

    That would be similar to the other rune forge enchants.

    I was very excited about this change.

    For those of us still building some new tier gear with expertise this will allow us to perhaps use one ssg forge with one parry and not have to stack any defense gems.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts