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Thread: Deathknight DW Tanking Discussion

  1. #61
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    Well it does not say it will be cut in half. It just says
    Rune of the Nerubian Carapace - Affixes your rune weapon with a rune that increases Defense by 25 and total Stamina by 2%. Modifying your rune weapon requires a Rune Forge in Ebon Hold.
    So my guess is that in this current version it stacks, which makes it kinda OP

  2. #62
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    It will allow us to use DPS slow weapon more easily for tanking which is I assume the goal (like we use 2H DPS weapon for 2H tanking).

    About the rune, it seem to be 25 def/2%stam each for the moment but I doubt it will stay that way; even if it dont stack (and that would be the first runeforge that dont) it will be OP: 25 Def/2% stam on one + 2% parry on the second? ouch I guess it will soon be nerfed ^^

  3. #63
    I don't think that's too OP at all. Just some quick thinking, 1h tanking weapons "generally" have a faster swing timer than 2h's. This opens us up to a boss parrying our attacks more often if we only have the soft cap on expertise. This would allow us to gem more for expertise in order to get closer to the hard cap instead of flat out gemming stam for all our slots.

    A couple of Precise Dragon's Eye's should easily get you close to or over the hard cap depending on gear.

  4. #64
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    I would guess since the PTR isn't live yet, that these are placeholder values, they just copy/pasted SSG description.

    It will get cut roughly down the middle, though I wouldn't be surprised if the defense skill portion was adjusted to give a little more since 25 doesn't divide evenly nicely.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  5. #65
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    it looks like blizzard doesn't want to itemize slow tanking weapons, so they're going to encourage you to DW slow dps weapons and use the 1h SSG runeforge. The problem is that the rune as-is would make DW tanking horribly OP. it needs to be split down the middle. through-put from parry-haste is a joke once you hit the soft-expertise cap, as we've discussed on this forum many, many times. this would allow you to benefit from your runeforge enchants in a way that 2h tanks can't compete with.

    I hope you're correct Satorri, for the following reason: even if you assume that the enchant will only be allowed on one weapon at a time: that means that DW tanks would get the same benefit from SSG AND be able stack a 2% parry enchant on their off-hand. that means they're getting 2% stamina and 5% avoidance from their runeforge enchants. past a certain gear threshold, expertise appears on most tanking epics, so keeping the soft-cap is no longer really an issue.

    with all that being said, it was mentioned above so i'll mention it here as well: it would be preposterous if it is allowed on both hands as-is. there would be no excuse for someone to spec anything else but DW frost when tanking if that were the case. this rune on both hands would return 4% stamina and 50 defense unaffected by diminishing returns, i.e. 6% avoidance. you would never have to do anything but stack stamina gems in every slot, which would be to your advantage to get the most of the 4% stamina boost.

    They've also dug themselves into a corner on this: the RS change erased the threat deficit between DW and 2h. I saw 10k threat on my meter for the first time last night. the soft expertise cap is not hard to keep. the only problem for DW right now is itemization (we need more slow tanking weapons). this rune is not necessary and will make me deliciously OP if it goes live as is. It either needs to be split into 2 enchants, or they should just introduce more slow tanking weapons, which is the next logical step.
    Last edited by lyd; 10-02-2009 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #66
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    It's confirmed as being the same as Gargoyle divided by two (ie. 2% total stam).
    The DK tank site: pwnwear.com.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyd View Post
    with all that being said, it was mentioned above so i'll mention it here as well: it would be preposterous if it is allowed on both hands as-is. there would be no excuse for someone to spec anything else but DW frost when tanking if that were the case. this rune on both hands would return 4% stamina and 50 defense unaffected by diminishing returns, i.e. 6% avoidance. you would never have to do anything but stack stamina gems in every slot, which would be to your advantage to get the most of the 4% stamina boost.
    Bumpage for emphasis.

    Incidentally, an off topic thought. DKs are supposed to be bad-ass, terrifying heroes who strike fear wielding 2h weapons rather than sword and board. With that in mind, why they gave Titan's Grip to warriors and not DKs instead is beyond me. I realize the mechanics and itemization nightmare this would be to implement this, but it doesn't really fit the vision.

  8. #68
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    Dec 2008
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    It seem to be a tooltip error: it's already 13def/1%stam on PTR.


    @Venom Rush: this rune is made to allow us to use 2 slow DPS weapon instead of 2 fast tanking weapons.

    And it's already great like this, we will gain in threat (by using slow weapon), in def (I dont know 2 tanking weapon that give you 25 def skill - not rating), and in stam (even if dps weapon have less stam, +2% stam will be an overall gain). Oh and I almost forget: slow weapons also mean less parry-haste problem, even if it's already not a problem imo.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    It seem to be a tooltip error: it's already 13def/1%stam on PTR.


    @Venom Rush: this rune is made to allow us to use 2 slow DPS weapon instead of 2 fast tanking weapons.

    And it's already great like this, we will gain in threat (by using slow weapon), in def (I dont know 2 tanking weapon that give you 25 def skill - not rating), and in stam (even if dps weapon have less stam, +2% stam will be an overall gain). Oh and I almost forget: slow weapons also mean less parry-haste problem, even if it's already not a problem imo.
    It's not even worth mentioning, honestly. alot of the progression DW tanks I've seen already use 2 slow dps weapons to tank, which puts them at less parry-haste liability than a warrior. by a large margin, in fact:

    warrior:
    1.5 speed = 40 apm
    1.5 gcd = 40 apm

    assuming 6 gcd's a minute are used to refresh thunderclap and demo shout...74 apm.

    DK slow/slow:
    2.5 = 24x2 = 48 apm
    1.5 gcd = 40 apm

    84 apm base. even without considering icy touch and howling blast, you would only need 12% runestrike replacement on MH strikes to go below 74 parryable apm. most DK's can reasonably expect at least 25% replacement, and that's pretty conservative when the average dk would be looking at a RS proc every 4-5 seconds @ ~50% avoidance with a boss w/ 2-2.4 swing speed. raid-buffed 20% haste on 2.5 = 2.0 swing speed, so a little less than every other swing, meaning you should be shooting for the 45% replacement range with a slow MH.

    in other words: not only is there no parry-haste "problem," but warriors will find themselves behind the parry-haste curve if most DW DK's are now using slow dps weapons in each hand almost exclusively come next patch.

    but parry-haste is not a big deal anymore, so this isn't really bad for warriors nor much solace for DW DK's, other than hoping that the hysterical holdouts that still think DW tanking is fail will finally shut their mouths and accept it.
    Last edited by lyd; 10-04-2009 at 09:22 PM.

  10. #70
    A little off topic: I keep seeing mentions of the parry-haste effect not being an issue. Can someone tell me or direct me to what it is about the parry-haste effect that's changed?

  11. #71
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    venom: i'll PM you with my dissertations on parry-haste. I don't want to flood this post with old info that already exists elsewhere on the forum.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lyd View Post
    venom: i'll PM you with my dissertations on parry-haste. I don't want to flood this post with old info that already exists elsewhere on the forum.
    Thanks

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