DK Tanking advice needed please!

[Xsr2000]

The World of Warcraft Armory

I started my foray into this tanking business about a week ago and am loving it. I'm just looking for some advice from wiser and more experienced folks.

I've really only done heroics at this point and made it in for one boss on 10 man Naxx. So far, I have tanked every heroic and 10 man and 25 man VoA.

• What upgrades should I be looking at getting first? I started by grabbing the top tier emblem loot - but I've burnt through that. Mostly wondering what order would make the most since to prioritize badge upgrades. Are there any other easy upgrades I am missing?
• Am I missing any key stats, gemming wrong, etc?
• What raid content would I be okay to tank in at this point?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Insahnity]

You have far too much defense (560 instead of 540), and it's partly due to the fact that you gemmed your crab with defense instead of stam and stam defense. Your gloves also could probably do without the 34 defense. Also, avoid missing stamina socket bonuses, like your boots.
Definately chase after new shoulders and bracers in HToC (Bracers from Black Knight, shoulders from priestess cache).
If you accumulate enough badges, the platinum mesh cloak from valor badges is better than your current cloak, as is the tanking ring with the same badges. However, running a raid is probably more beneficial.
You should easily be able to do nax 10/OS10/voa10. I wouldn't put Nax25/OS25/EoE10 above you either, although VoA25 Emalon may be abit of a challenge for you.
I would mention that I find ToC gear to be DK friendly due to shield-stat less tank plate, the heroic gear is a good for situational tank sets.

[Xsr2000]

Thanks for the quick reply! I had read that the +25 def from Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle is not subject to diminishing returns for +def. Which is why I was shooting for 565 def - is this not the case? Or is it just better to gem for something else?

I currently have enough badges for
1) Valorous Scourgeborne Pauldrons
or
2) Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets
or
3) Platinum Mesh Cloak and Signet of the Impregnable Fortress

Not sure on which would give me the most bang for my buck.

Also as far as gemming goes, I'm not 100% certain on stat priority I guess. What should I favor there? There is a lot of information around and a lot is contradictory.

Thanks again!

[Insahnity]

I never understood the 25 def not subject to diminishing returns. Anything after 540 defense is strictly upping your dodge/parry/(block). These are all subject to diminishing returns. While the 25 skill is not subject to DR, and neither is your 400 natural skill, what about the other 140? There is no "order". Your 140 defense skill from gems will still get the DR bat.

As for gearing priority
1) 540 defense. Always. No ifs and or buts. Anything over 540 is OK for avoidance, but IMO thats more beneficial to shield bearers., especially in large quantities like 565.
2) Get your expertise up to 26, no more than 49ish. After 26, start to stack->
3) -> Hit until 264 hit rating.

Now, after 1, if you FEEL threat is not an issue, you can start to stam stack. However, I'd hate to be under expertise/hit cap and find out mid raid it isn't enough.

If you want avoidance, most tanks here feel that you should get it naturally from your gear upgrades without specifically gemming for it. I advocate gemming for dodge/stam to hit stam socket bonus (assuming your expertise is capped, right?), or something equally yummy, but not going for something like a str bonus or anything. There's a nice post by one of our nice CMs advocating a 1.85/1 dodge to parry ratio, to discourage a pure dodge stack.

Stam stacking is a decent way to go when you get through all this.

For gear, I wouldn't go for the shoulders right now. I'd get the cloak and ring first, followed by the bracers. The reason is that the value in the shoulders is in the set bonus, which in today's day and age is meaningless since you are already in t8.5, those are t7.5 shoulders.

[Xsr2000]

Thanks - great information! Your explanation of the def cap makes more sense than any other I've read.

[Gearfighter]

i have some expertise and hit rating, but i never really bother to look at it, idk why but i tank 10man naxx and all heroics, an i hold aggro, and my hits never miss and my attacks never get parried or dodged, so i might be lucky or im already capped and didnt realise it lol

[Zivh]

@ Gearfighter:

Use /combatlog and upload a parse to WWS or any other stat site and I'm sure you'll see that you ARE being dodged and parried and ARE missing attacks. Naxx10 and heroics are easy as pie, and thats most likely why you aren't having a problem.

[Xsr2000]

I upped my expertise to 25 and am over the hit cap now, and I can vouch for a significant increase in dps and threat. Didn't really have time to optimize everything last night though - so I'm sure it will only get better. Thanks for the help!

[Insahnity]

Keep at it. Not sure if you accomplished this through gear or through gems/enchants, but as you get upgrades you will find that you can do it all without gemming/enchanting for it. Incidentally, if there is one stat you want to be over, pick expertise over hit. Expertise at 26 only wipes off dodges from the table, parries are still there, and having your attacks parried leads to parry hasted boss attacks (the "ouchie"), so getting rid of those increases survival. Increasing hit beyond 264 does have benefits, like better taunts , etc., but survival is a bit more important.

[Deathreach.Malf]

I never understood the 25 def not subject to diminishing returns.

Any stat enchants are not subject to diminishing returns, so Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle provides 1% avoidance to DKs no matter how higher there defense is. At Xsr2000 the 25 defense you get from stoneskin gargoyle does count to the def cap so you only need 515 defense from gear, this is due mostly to the fact that DKs do not get defense from weapons where warriors and pallies do. If you can get to 540 defense with out stoneskin use sword shattering because it provides 4% avoidance that can not be diminished. Even though you lose the 2% stam buff it also increases your threat because you can rune strike more often.

I do have a question about expertise, i'm currently sitting at 21 expertise and i feel like i am getting out threat by pallies who are less geared then but have more HP because they stacked straight stamina. is getting my expertise to 26 worth sacrificing some stamina? i could replace some stam gems w/ stam/expertise gems, but i feel it defeats the purpose because even though i will generate more threat i'm losing survivability.

[Insahnity]

Speaking as a tankadin, it is too easy for us to pull massive amounts of threat even at low gear levels. This is the reason for the upcoming nerf to our Righteous Fury. In addition, we currently gain 30% of our stamina as spell power, so a mindless stam stack will also result in a threat gain, even if they very bad levels of hit/expertise. This will also be changed next patch, as the talent will be changed from stamina to strength, which for most stam stacked tanks will be a significant spell power loss.

My advice? Just as DKs enjoyed some time in the limelight as OP tanks, paladins will have their few weeks before they are also beaten back down into the ground. Compare yourselves to bears and warriors instead. In the meanwhile, quietly chuckle as you wait for the paladin nerfs.