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Thread: A way to fix warrior AoE threat?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roarc View Post
    Not saying we're broken but the "quality of life" in AoE situation could be vastly improved.
    Ok I think that is my favorite quote of the day.

    I'll vote with veneretio and say I like the frontal cone cleave idea the best.

    TC does generate good threat as it is - 6 second cooldown can create an aoe timing issue that is very frustrating, but turning it into consecrate doesn't make sense. If we turned it into a dot, it would likely need to do less damage up front which would defeat the "lots of initial threat" benefit that it creates now.

    Changing cleave to frontal cone imroves the aoe threat on more than 2 (or 3 if glyphed) targets in a reasonable time frame. Now that they have changed druid swipe to 360, we aren't just asking for cleave to be swipe

  2. #22
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    I'm not really convinced Warrior AoE is broken and needs fixing.

    T-clap, cleave, shield block, tab-target single threat moves+ cleaves, tclap every 6, shockwave when shield block ends... can't say I ever have much of a problem.

  3. #23
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    It's kind of a pain when you have mobs like the worms in hodir's hallway, and dps wants to be the stupid sobs that they always are and AoE right off the bat. A paladin or a dk has that immediate advantage with just laying something down and getting that instant threat, and the druid swipe can be spammed and hit everything. I'm not saying that I want to just be lazy and have everything handed to me...I just want to be able to compete with other tanks and dps in this new world of "AoE everything in the raid".

  4. #24
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    Hey Folks,
    In anticipation of having to tank many heroics with some top raid dps, and knowing I don't have a problem with single-target threat, I've started using a different build for AoE tanking and it works very well. I think with the progression tanking focus on survivability and single-target threat/dps (deep wounds), a lot of useful warrior AoE abilities have been ignored.
    AoE Tanking Spec
    Cheers,
    Gorca

  5. #25
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    ... i think we should have the ability for cleave to hit all mobs infront of us (must have shield equiped) and it should be bundled into the 1H specialization talent ... not many tanks would complain about the rage cost of cleave if it did that ... oh and for cleave to become instant .. like a dk's heart strike ... none of this on next swing crap

    my 2 cents and clearly and seemably a reasonable and very doable answer to this question

  6. #26
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    I don't mind a target cap personally, but at the least we need a distance cap (e.g. all targets for 5 yards in front of the warrior). And I think we have to stick with the on next swing mechanic because DPS warriors are balanced around that as well. Which to be honest I'm ok with, I just plan my AOE rotation around it (and honestly it's like HS spam on single targets, so it's just not a big deal to me).

  7. #27
    One of the better ideas I've seen is to remove the stance restriction from Whirlwind, which is already an integral part of Warriors. With only our 1h weapon equipped while tanking, the damage and threat would be about right.t

    Some of the suggestions here are outlandishly overpowered. We're not lightyears behind even Paladins in AoE threat, we just need an additional 10-15% effectiveness in order to hang onto the trash for 10 seconds until it dies.

    It's possible that even just allowing WW into a Protection AoE scenario is overpowered, but given that it would be 1h weapon damage, after 5% Def Stance penalty, and used once every 10 seconds, etc, it seems realistic.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roarc View Post
    The above buffs would however have to be relatively deep into the protection tree, say a tier 2-4 follow-up of Improved Thunder Clap (i.e. it would cost something like 4 talent points in total).
    We do not need more necessary talents TBH. I already don't have Deep Wounds which caused noticeable threat.

  9. #29
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    those are some good suggestion guys, and to those saying that warriors are just qqing and want more. I think you guys should play a warrior and run heroics with 3 uld geared dps that just start dpsin as you pull your mob. Yeah pretty frustrating and then you get what warrior you can't hold aggro.

    when pretty much it's the dps fault not knowing how to properly work with a warrior tank.
    When I'm comanding the strike you need to know you're in the fight for your life

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golmmaster View Post
    when pretty much it's the dps fault not knowing how to properly work with a warrior tank.
    While partly true, when dps have to change how they play for one tank type they tend to avoid that type.

    Yes warriors can AOE tank but we do have to put in alot more effort than the other tanks and get less out of it. The effectiveness of maul glyph and swipe spam compared to warrior AOE is really sad.

    It doesnt have to be that easy, but most in/least out is dissapointing. Heroics I dont have the rage to spam cleave, and if I'm raiding with a prot pally I need to taunt mobs off him if I really want to do much in the AOE packs.

    A deep prot talent that increased the amount of targets cleave hit combined with either it hitting harder and/or for less rage would be really nice.

    Cleave hitting 4 targets would make life alot easier. Roll it into dmg sheild, increases number of targets hit by cleave by 1/2 and reduces the rage cost of cleave by 4/8.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purinna View Post
    Has everyone in raiding forgot about Omen? There once was a time when a tank took on multiple mobs and the dps wasn't able to just aoe bomb everything down. Why change warrior abilities to compensate for lazy dps that just wants to blow everything up.

    Do you know what Marking mobs is, what about a main assist? Terms not commonly used in raids much anymore im betting.

    Warriro tanking is watered down enough right now. For Christs sakes leave us alone.

    /rant off

    If you have one class where you have to ask to wait for sunders, only single target dps, use CC like we did back in BC, and three classes who can AE trash down with a minimum of effort, which class do you think people are going to pick?

    /1 LF Tank for Heroic Shattered Halls, no warriors, please.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risky View Post
    I'm not really convinced Warrior AoE is broken and needs fixing.

    T-clap, cleave, shield block, tab-target single threat moves+ cleaves, tclap every 6, shockwave when shield block ends... can't say I ever have much of a problem.
    Well, there's one problem with your statement. Tab target with single threat moves is called single target threat, not AoE. You're using one GCD to hit one guy, as the number of mobs increases the harder it becomes to hold threat on a pack. Realistically, you can only hit devastate 4 times between Tclaps which after that point if your real AoE threat generator isn't holding the 5th mob by itself it's going to pull off anyway.

    I'm not saying Warriors are broken or anything. That's rediculous, Warriors do fine. I'm just saying that our AoE is weaker than some others and the answer everyone gives (tab target) isn't Area of Effect at all. It's called outplaying. Warriors are great tanks, we just need to outplay all the other tanks to keep up with AoE threat gen.

  13. #33
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    Other tank classes also have to tab target when pitted against good AoE dps'ers as well. It's not just warriors.

  14. #34
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    I want to see something based on Sword and Board. perhaps the Sword and Board buffs resets the cooldown of both Thunderclap and Shield Slam, but using the buff on one of the two also puts the other on cooldown too.

  15. #35
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    Requires 1 point in Warbringer
    [Static Charge]: After using [Charge] you build up static to be released in your next [Thunderclap], causing it to crit against all enemy's in range. This ability causes a very high amount of threat


    I think this would work well, without being a consecrate. we'd still have to work hard to be able to use it multiple times. since it requires warbringer, it would also be very deep in the tree. plus Static Charge is a play on words. since it utilized both Thunder clap (the static), and Warbringer(the charge).
    Last edited by Braux; 08-17-2009 at 04:55 PM.
    Seriously? is that guy using volley on Saph?

  16. #36
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    So, I made it about 1/2 way through the entirety of this thread before I had to stop and accually make an account.

    For years I have been coming to tank spot as a source of valuable information and to stay up-to-date on the all the news of in my opinion the best tanking class, warriors.

    Every couple months or so a post gets put up like this where someone loves our class but thinks our ae abilities are vastly undertuned compaired to the other flavors of tanks out there.

    To that i say, Yer doin it wrong! I may be more experienced or as experienced or even less experienced than some of you but as much love as blizzard gave in 3.0 when they buffed thunder clap as well gave us shockwave and we could accually do midly respectable dps at the same time.

    Now 8 months later we get another much needed to buff to devastate which was growing outdated and underscaled and yet still people want more. AE tanking is not a hard concept as a warrior and ciderhelm even has some great information videos on proper way to pull to make it easier on you if you are unfamiliar or still uncomfortable doing so.

    Basically if you evolve as your charactor has, you shouldnt have to much problem doing ae threat, lots of thunder claps, lots of cleaves. hell we even have a 2minute ae taunt now.... that isnt op?

  17. #37
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    Just because there is a way to do it. doesn't mean we're the best at it. Nor would i ask us to be. but we work much harder to achieve less. and DPS have become accustomed to being able to AoE harder for those kinds of tanks.
    and I'm pretty sure even cider will tell you that while we may be awsome tanks. aoe threat is not our corner of the market as it is for Pally/DK (somewhat druid)
    Seriously? is that guy using volley on Saph?

  18. #38
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    I definantly dont disagree or am tyring to argue the fact that we arnt the BEST at ae tanking, but I think people forgot that blizzard intended warriors to be a harder class to play and they have made it significantly easier is all i was trying to get across another buff to thunderclap isnt out of the question, but I also think its not necessary.

  19. #39
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    While I agree that most of the time aoe situations don't pose a problem, I'm just not comfortable with-
    -the idea that while we aren't the best aoe tanks we should be worst instead.
    -1 button consec, 1 button BB... how many do you press to keep cleave/TC/ShW nonstop? during which you have to painfully position everything in front of you? and then how many mobs do your cleaves hit, out of say 12?...
    -having 2 min aoe taunt is nice but it will mosdef not help when tanking any number of adds 6 yards away from maintanked boss
    -having to specificly ask for a 5 sec delay on aoe, else there is no freakin way even glyphed TC to reach+grab them all
    -gimping your already inferior innate aoe if you just - oh no! - happen to not be speced 15 in arms for DW...

    Sure I will work harder for less aoe threat, it's just a combination of all these thats frustrating.
    Last edited by sud; 08-18-2009 at 03:11 AM.
    "Yes." - Captain Obvious

  20. #40
    I don't really think it's a big deal though. If you die on AE you need to go back to the drawing board as a DPSer, and while I agree it's part of many bossfights, Warriors have a unique ability to make up for the lower AE threat: Shockwave.

    Before anyone comes around to hound me for this, I am the raidleader for nearly half the raids (my GF, the guildleader, being the other), and I love Shockwave. For fights with adds it's one of the most versatile and powerful abilities in the raid's toolset, as it can visibly and noticeably turn bad moments... "easy".

    So I don't think there's a big deal here.

    The way I see AE tanking is this:
    Warrior: Low Threat, but Shockwave and AE Taunt and AE Debuffs.
    Druid: Tricky pick-up, but AE Taunt and AE Debuffs
    DK: Easiest pickup and AE Atk Slow, but cannot move his AE zone well. Non-Frostspecs also lose their only shot if the DnD misses, as spreading Diseases is slow.
    Paladin: Good pickup, very good threat, well-moveable AE zone, but only tank without an AE-debuff to the add's damage.

    And to me, that is all fairly balanced. Being the one who has to organize it I have yet to have a gripe with a tankclasses' AE abilities. Sure they can be very different, but each has pitfalls. Don't underestimate the raw extra damage a Tankadin suffers, being his healer I easily notice.
    SQUEAK.
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